On Feb 27, 2011, at 1:55 PM, frank theriault wrote: > On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Bob Sullivan <[email protected]> wrote: >> Frank, >> I wouldn't spin it so anti-auto maker management. > > I'm not saying that unions didn't or don't have a hand in the current > state of things, but I think it's naive to put ~all~ the blame on > unions (as I perceived had been done by Paul). Despite what you may > think, I'm not some union lackie. These top-heavy organizations often > put their ~own~ needs before those of their own workers... > >> Managers gave the union the wage and benefits packages they wanted, > > No, the unions and the companies worked out an agreement that they > ~both~ agreed on. They danced the dance, didn't they? Unions asked > high, companies responded low and they eventually met in the middle. > >> then passed the costs onto the consumers. > > While maintaining their profits, I'm sure. > >> Low priced cars like the VW Beetle made inroads in the US market. >> Customers began to vote on price and managers responded. >> Unfortunately the rush to take costs out also affected quality. > > And there's the crux. A decision was made to compromise quality. > That was a management decision. Do you really think that Ford > couldn't have made a better car than the Pinto? GM the Vega or > Firenza? You make it sound like an inevitability; it's just > "unfortunate" is all... > > NO! It was a decision to cut corners, put the consumers lives at risk > (covering up problems) and try to sell as many units as possible. > These people aren't stupid, they made decisions. > >> Eventually the foreign makers were shipping in cars created >> with better quality by employees paid a lower wage. >> High trade barriers would have been the only chance to keep >> the high US union wages, but foreign workers wanted a share of that >> prosperity. >> Why would you favor American workers over Foreign workers? :-) > > C'mon, Bob. My guess is that German workers make as much as > Americans, and did back in the 60s and 70s. People kept buying > Volkswagens and BMWs long after they were more expensive than > similarly sized American and Japanese cars. Detroit simply refused to > make a BMW 2002 when they could keep selling Dodge Darts.
The BMW 2002 sold in tiny numbers in North America. While it was cute, fun to drive, and trendy, it wasn't a particularly good product. Volkswagens were a good product for the money, but with the rear engine and swing axle, they were just as dangerous as Corvairs and not very reliable. (Of course Ralph Nader didn't single them out, because they weren't built by the evil General Motors. ) But Beatles were cheap, so they were a good value for the money. The German taxpayers covered most healthcare and retirement costs for VW, so they had a huge price advantage. VW started building cars in the U.S. many years ago and many of their products are now built right here -- in non-union right to work states. Paul > > cheers, > frank > > -- > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > [email protected] > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
