On Apr 7, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Paul Sorenson <[email protected]> wrote:
> Interspersed... > > On 4/6/2013 7:26 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >> Voucher systems provide education financing but allow parents to make >> their own choice. The selections are generally many and no one is >> compelled to attend a religious institution. Thus, they don't really >> fit the definition of a public school. > > I have no problem with parents choosing to send their children to private or > religious schools - *Choosing* being the operative word. My point is that > they have the option of attending a public school and if they choose a > private school they know there is an obligation to pay tuition. The > taxpayers do not/should not have an obligation to subsidize them. But if we establish a charter school system to provide competition for our failing public schools, offering choices seems reasonable. I have no problem with some of my tax dollars going to a Muslim school or a school that preaches the modern religion of secularism, as long as those schools are succeeding and other options are available. Freedom is about options. > > >> >> Wisconsin is one of only a few states that allow vouchers to be used >> in religious schools. The Wisconsin Supreme Court okayed that in >> 1998, but it's expected that the U.S. Supreme Court will eventually >> rule on it. I suspect they will affirm the state court's decision, in >> that federal student loans have always been available at religiously >> affiliated universities. That doesn't make those universities "public >> schools." > > Apples and oranges...vouchers are paid directly to the school as state aid > with no requirement for any reimbursement - a gift from the taxpayers. > Student loans are just that...loans that the student can use for tuition as > well as other educational items and that come with a payback obligation on > the part of the student. > >> >> In regard to traditional public schools being better than or equal to >> charter schools that's largely a myth perpetrated by teacher unions >> -- of which I was once a member. In Detroit, the charter schools and >> religious schools far outperform the public schools. Nationally, the >> margin is thinner, but overall, the charter schools have an edge. >> That's not to say that there aren't bad charters. There are. But the >> competition of the marketplace eventually weeds them out. Public >> schools don't have to compete. That's part of the problem. >> >> Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Paul Sorenson <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> It depends on your definition of a "Public School". If it's a >>> school offered/run by a public entity, then I'd agree that thy are >>> non-denominational. However, the big push in Wisconsin by both a >>> Republican governor and a Republican legislature is for so-called >>> "voucher schools" whereby private and religious schools are >>> partially funded by taxpayer money. >>> >>> The argument for that is "they provide a better education than the >>> public schools". Unfortunately, the research shows that they don't >>> perform any better and in some cases don't provide as good an >>> education. >>> >>> I don't know if that meets the definition of separation of church >>> and state, but it sure as hell is not non-denominational. >>> >>> -p >>> >>> On 4/6/2013 6:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >>>> I've never seen a United States public school that has religious >>>> affiliation. I would think it would be unconstitutional. >>>> >>>> Paul On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Stan Halpin >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> All U.S. public schools are non-demominational. >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul via phone >>>>> >>>>> Except in parts of the South and Midwest. >>>>> >>>>> stan >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 6, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Bob W <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6 Apr 2013, at 16:01, Ann Sanfedele <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In an effort to inject a bit of levity into this >>>>>>>> discussion.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/6/2013 10:12, Bipin Gupta wrote: >>>>>>>>> ... I am a Hindu, but went to a Roman Catholic Boarding >>>>>>>>> Public School, so I fully understand Western Values. >>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>> What's wrong with this sentence? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Spurious logic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> B >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] >>>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE >>>>> from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow >>>>> the directions. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- Being old doesn't seem so old now that I'm old. >>> >>> -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from >>> the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the >>> directions. >> >> > > -- > Being old doesn't seem so old now that I'm old. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > [email protected] > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
