That's very interesting, thank you. Since epatage is in an old slang dictionary, and described as 'populaire', which essentially means working-class, and would not be used in polite company, I think it's unlikely to have entered Russian via the French-speaking elite, but the idea of it coming in via avant-garde arts circles, who set out to epater the elites, sounds highly plausible.
It doesn't exist in my 2009 Dictionnaire du francais populaire et argotique (also Larousse), or in Littre, which is highly regarded <http://littre.reverso.net/dictionnaire-francais/definition/Epatage>. Google returns mostly Russian uses of the word - no French ones that I could find on the first 2-3 pages, so while it may not technically be dead, it certainly seems to be pining for something. My guess is that it doesn't exist in English except, as you say, in the context of Russian avant-garde arts circles - and now the PDML! A very interesting word. The Littre reference above shows that epater is figuratively about knocking you down onto all fours, pattes being paws. B > On 8 Apr 2015, at 23:23, Igor PDML-StR <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Bob, that's actually an interesting guess, and it has quite a few arguments > in support. And you did get my curiosity ignited... > > > The word does exist in Russian, but in all Russian sources (dictionaries), > its origin is attributed directly to French "epatage" (not even > epate). However, as you might know, in the 19's century, and beginning of the > 20's, Russian elite was speaking French (sometimes even better than Russian). > In the early 20's century, French was still popular in the arts circles as > well So, it is quite possible that the word occured in French but in Russia. > > After googling, I can trace that this word had been used at least in > 1910-20's, - in application to Russian poets and artists, futurists and > minimalists. > > The interesting thing is that it also appears (without any translation) in > some English-language books authored by English-speaking authors, - the books > on Futurism and Minimalism of early 20's century, primarily in Russia. So, > that's consistent with the hypothesis. > These books were published in the US between 1970s and 2014), which suggests > that this word has existed in English for at least 40 years, even though it > is not a main-stream word. I wouldn't be surprised that it came into English > from Russian, with the associated artistic culture. > > As for the French dictionaries. I don't have access to any really big one, > but I was able to find this word in this online one (DVLF): > http://goo.gl/f4EHJJ > > Finally, after all of this has been written (a few hours later - Bob, I'll > send you the bill! ;-)), I found a copy of a book titled: > "Argot and Slang -- A new French and English dictionary of the cant words, > quaint expressions, slang terms and flash phrases - used in the > high and low life of old and new Paris" by Albert Barrere, published in > London in 1889(!): > https://archive.org/stream/argotslangnewfre00barriala#page/n5/mode/2up > > There, I founnd (p.132): > Epatage, m. (popular). See Epatement. > Epatement, m. (general), astonishment. > https://archive.org/stream/argotslangnewfre00barriala#page/132/mode/2up > > So, despite its elegance, the hypothesis about the Russian origin of this > word is incorrect. > > > tl;dr summary: the word epatage is French, and it also used in English, > albeit not in the main-stream vocabulary. > > Cheers, > > Igor > > > > > Bob W Wed, 08 Apr 2015 12:24:05 -0700 wrote: > > Actually I think it's a pseudo-French word invented by Russians. The > nominalisation of epater that is given in my Larousse dictionary is > epatement; epatage doesn't feature. > > > It's interesting that 'epater les bourgeois' or 'epater la bourgeoisie' is a > well-known phrase in English, referring to the use of art to shock, but I > once used it in a conversation with a French art historian and she claimed > never to have heard it before, and found it very amusing. Perhaps it was my > pronunciation. > > B > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: PDML [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Igor PDML-StR >> Sent: 08 April 2015 19:54 >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: PESO 2015 - 048-052 - GDG >> >> >> >> Sorry, it is a French word, and I've heard it in English, but possibly from >> people familiar with French. >> >> In the article linked by Godfrey, (2) and (6) are the primary attributes of >> "epatage" behavior applicable to Warhol. >> >> Igor >> >> PS. I'm glad I inadvertently provoked your curiosity. ;-) >> >> >> Godfrey DiGiorgi Wed, 08 Apr 2015 10:10:37 -0700 wrote: >> >> I was also curious so I did a Google search. >> http://armene.com/item/epatage.html >> >> >> It's an unusual word in the English language. >> >> G >> >> >> > On Apr 8, 2015, at 9:52 AM, John <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > What is "epatage"? >> > >> > It's a new word for me, and it's not in any of the online dictionaries >> > I >> use. >> > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > [email protected] > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
