First, let me apologize if I can off sort of "aggro" in my response -- I've been dealing with Windows servers for the last couple of days, and it some of my frustration appears to have bled over into this discussion. I'll try to address some of your comments below, but please know that the last thing I want to do is accuse anyone of being stupid or ignorant.
On 4/21/06, Tim Dysinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That's always good to do - regardless of language. Of course. My point was simply that in Ruby, polymorphism is much more natural and lightweight to work with, since you don't have to pre-define and strictly adhere to detailed interfaces to get things to "just work." > I am just looking for understanding here with the best way to dev > code with my posts. I AM NOT TRYING TO KNOCK ANYTHING. Understood -- I may have picked up on a bit of a recurring rant people new to Ruby (and Perl, Python, and other dynamic languages) tend to make, which is, "there aren't any good IDEs for <language>, so I can't get any work done!" > Java C# Python "dysfunctional" ??? OK. Python may not be in the "dysfunctional" camp in my book, but I personally don't find Java a particularly compelling environment to work with, IDE or no. Regardless, this was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. > No one should expect to learn via osmosis. I have about 6 languages > under my belt over the last 20 years. Tell me something new. Still, > I use code completion, refactoring, object browsers, debuggers and > such every single day in Java (and C#) because it's productive. I'm not suggesting osmosis, but there is certainly a "Ruby Way" which only really becomes apparent after some exposure to the language. While all of the tools you mention are available in Ruby in some form or another, their form and function are somewhat different from the monolithic IDEs like Eclipse or Visual Studio, and more centered around command-line and textual interaction. > > [...]but the fact remains that Java and > > J2EE offer an inelegant (if conservative and utilitarian) environment > > in which to create code. > > WTF? Sorry, blatantly passing opinion off as fact...my bad. *I* dislike working with Java for a host of reasons, but I shouldn't knock it to those who don't. > And with Java I don't need to guess, because there are tools that > will make sure I got it right AS I'M TYPING before I deploy it and > find out I'm wrong. Method and parameter name completion still doesn't help much with the semantics of the calls, just their typing and syntax. In other words, they're a shortcut that reduces keystrokes and context switches, not reliability of the result. If you have less complex APIs and syntax keep in your head in the first place, the additional support may not be necessary. > What the hell tools where you using in Java? Being able to keep > developing without refreshing/restarting the app server isn't new and > special to Ruby. Again, not the point I was trying to make -- my point was that it was extremely easy, without any particular IDE or infrastructure, to simply open my source file in Vim on the server and make a quick change, and not lose any of the features I was accustomed to from my normal development environment. > [...] So far from what I'm hearing is every bit as bigoted as most Java > developers ( myself included not to long ago ). I'm trying to keep > an open mind here. Let's not ruin it with "My VI is better than your > emacs" BS Again, I hope you won't let my brief foray into Java-bashing overshadow my real intention, which was to offer some explanation (based on my experience) of why I don't miss many of the features you ask about, and where there are in fact useful analogues. -Lennon _______________________________________________ PDXRuby mailing list [email protected] IRC: #pdx.rb on irc.freenode.net http://lists.pdxruby.org/mailman/listinfo/pdxruby
