Jerry R., Mary, List: Both those LLM responses are anything but *intelligent*--they seem to be textbook cases of "hallucinations," not quoting anything that Peirce or Carnap actually wrote. As Google blithely admits below every "AI Overview" that it provides in search results, "AI responses may include mistakes."
What Peirce *does *say, in Baldwin's *Dictionary of Philosophy and Psychology*, is that *pragmatism *is "The opinion that metaphysics is to be largely cleared up by the application of the following maxim for attaining clearness of apprehension: 'Consider what effects, that might conceivably have practical bearings, we conceive the object of our conception to have. Then, our conception of these effects is the whole of our conception of the object'" (CP 5.2, 1902). He adds a few years later, "Suffice it to say once more that pragmatism is, in itself, no doctrine of metaphysics, no attempt to determine any truth of things. It is merely a method of ascertaining the meanings of hard words and of abstract concepts" (CP 5.464, EP 2:400, 1907). As I have noted before, for Peirce the (extreme) scholastic realist, pragmatism is a theory of *meaning*--not a theory of *truth*, as it is for William James and other nominalist pragmatists. Peirce's recurring criticisms of Germans mostly have to do with what he perceives as their characteristic approach to *logic*, not metaphysics. In his day, they tended to treat it as *subjective*, maintaining that its aim "is simply to satisfy one's logical feeling and that the goodness of reasoning consists in that esthetic satisfaction alone" (CP 5.160, EP 2:211, 1903). He also complains that a typical German "does not know what a definition is. A definition should be a precise statement of what is involved in predicating a term," but a German definition "only tells you what kind of psychological experiment to make in order to find the conception" (NEM 3:923, no date). Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt / twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 12:00 PM Mary Libertin <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all, > Chatbot has not quoted or analyzed the passage from Carnap. The first > sentence is wrong. Chatbot can twist phrases together from different > sources in order to answer the prompt. I apologize for this second post. > > Mary > > On 9/22/25, 12:51 PM, "Mary Libertin" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Jerry and all, > > The passage is from: > > "The full quote is from Rudolf Carnap's 1932 article "The Elimination of > Metaphysics Through Logical Analysis of Language". In it, he states: "The > opinion that metaphysics is to be largely cleared up by the application of > the theory of signs is, I believe, the fundamental position of all those > who call themselves 'Logical Positivists'". He immediately follows this by > clarifying the true import of their logical analysis. > "This statement is a core part of the logical positivist project, which > the Vienna Circle pursued in the 1920s and 1930s. “ > I found it by copying and pasting the quote into my safari search bar. I > used the technique to check for plagiarism in students’ papers as soon as > the google search was available. > I would find the passage most out of context, or stylistically different, > and check it out. Many students were not plagiarizing among those I > checked, but most were plagiarized. > Some plagiarized only sentences, which should be paraphrased. Others > plagiarized paragraphs. I couldn’t check papers that could have been > written for them. > Since I couldn’t prove it, I would grade the essay they purchased, and > have a conference with them. > I retired in 2016. Now chatbot is doing something worse, in my opinion. It > does not give accurate sources, when it gives sources at all. > Best, > Mary Libertin > > On Sep 22, 2025, at 12:21 PM, Jerry Rhee <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I was messing around with ChatGPT and when I asked if it were familiar > with CP 5.189, it responded with this: > > *"The opinion that metaphysics is to be largely cleared up by the > application of the theory of signs is, I believe, correct. But I do not > think, as the Germans and their American followers seem to do, that > metaphysics is to be settled off-hand by drawing a few definitions and then > 'going to sleep.' Metaphysical questions are questions which the mind > naturally asks, and which it is stimulated to ask by the very development > of reasoning."* > > Now, as far as products of AI systems go, I think this is a very important > contribution, especially in light of the fact that we all know what the > traditional meaning of 'sleep' is in philosophy. > I mean, what are we, *stupid*? > > In any case, recognizing that the quote is not quoted correctly, the > statement still sounds very much like what Peirce would say. > May I request a scholar on this list to provide an actual reference or > something resembling it from his published/manuscript material, please? > > Thank you kindly. > Best, > jerry r > >
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