I am at least commenting on the semiotic and categorical capabilities of the AI model itself in order to understand what it is capable of contributing to broader inquiry and what human users need to bring to the AI model if they are to use them for inquiry.
My position is large language models are, from a semiotic perspective, a diagram. Which is to say, potentially very useful for inquiry but not an artificial “mind” capable of symbolic thought, which is necessary, in my view, for intelligence. The thing I might disagree with Jon on is I am probably more likely to consider the training process itself as quasi intelligent, albeit with a lot of caveats. On Tue, 7 Jul 2026 at 11:27 pm, Jon Alan Schmidt <[email protected]> wrote: > Gary R., List: > > As you know, I understand Peirce's late topical conception of continuity > to be top-down, not bottom-up; the whole is ontologically primordial, not > an assemblage of discrete parts. From that standpoint, the notion of *locating > *the continuity of semiosis does not really make sense--the *entire > universe* is a vast semiosic continuum from which individual signs, > individual sign-users, and larger inquiries can be prescinded as artifacts > of analysis. This obviously does not entail that the entire universe is > properly characterized as *intelligent*; on the contrary, it still > encompasses discrete things and their brute dyadic reactions, including the > sequential operations within a digital computer, as *degenerate *outcomes > of continuous and triadic semiosis. > > When most people refer to "artificial intelligence," it seems to me that > they are ascribing intelligence to an individual artificial system--exactly > what I find problematic--not the larger inquiry that results when humans *use > *it for that purpose. In fact, one of the most interesting presentations > at a conference that I attended last month advocated greater attention to > human interaction with "AI" systems, which effectively turns them into > "HAI" systems. Research suggests that improvements in that interface might > make a bigger positive difference going forward than further advancing the > capabilities of the technology itself. > > Regards, > > Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA > Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian > www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt / twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2026 at 3:11 PM Gary Richmond <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Jon, List, >> >> I wonder if it is possible that we are now considering somewhat different >> questions. It seems to me that you are commenting more on *the semiotic >> character of the AI system* itself, while I increasingly find myself >> reflecting on *the semeiotic character of the larger inquiry *in which >> AI seems to me to be capable of participating. Your sticking point as I >> see it seems to be that the internal operations of present AI systems >> consist entirely of dyadic reactions and, therefore, cannot participate in >> the continuous triadic semiosis that Peirce identifies with intelligence. >> >> Say, for the sake of argument, that everything you say about the >> machine's internal operations is correct, still does it necessarily follow >> that the larger inquiry within which those operations become signs for >> further interpretation cannot, then, exhibit genuine semiosis? >> >> So, I'm beginning to think that our principal disagreement has less to do >> with AI, but increasingly seems concerned with *where one ought to >> locate the continuity of semiosis itself*. Is it primarily within the >> individual sign-user, or may that continuity also characterize the larger >> inquiry through which interpretants are generated, criticized, corrected, >> etc.? If the latter, then intelligence may be seen in the living semiosis >> through which inquiry continually develops. >> >> Best, >> >> Gary R. >> > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] > . > ► <a href="mailto:[email protected]";>UNSUBSCRIBE FROM > PEIRCE-L</a> . But, if your subscribed email account is not your default > email account, then go to > https://list.iu.edu/sympa/signoff/peirce-l . > ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and > co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . ► <a href="mailto:[email protected]";>UNSUBSCRIBE FROM PEIRCE-L</a> . But, if your subscribed email account is not your default email account, then go to https://list.iu.edu/sympa/signoff/peirce-l . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
