---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: [biosemiotics:6037] Re:
From:    "Sungchul Ji" <[email protected]>
Date:    Thu, July 3, 2014 6:09 am
To:      [email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear  Rob,

Thanks for the link to "reism" which I reproduce below and intend to study
more:

"Reism

>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reism or concretism is a philosophical theory of  Tadeusz
Kotarbi&#324;ski, based on the ontology of Stanislaw Lesniewski,
specifically, his "calculus
of names".

In ontological sense, reism was condensed by Kotarbi&#324;ski to the two
postulates "every object is a body", i.e., all abstract concepts are to be
reduced to concrete objects.

No object is a state or relation, or property.
In semantical sense, it is a theory of language which draws a distinction
between "real" names, i.e., names associated with bodies and pseudo-names,
onomatoids, which denote states, relations, properties, events, etc. It
further elaborates on when a sentence is meaningful, when it has a
literal, direct sense or when it is meaningful or has an indirect sense."


If "reisim" is alternatively called "concretism", would "abstractism" the
antonym to "reism" ?  Has anyone suggested this ?

In this connection, I have been wondering if we can group all intellectual
discourses into three mutually exclusive classes (not that I am a
trichotomaniac), tentatively named "philosophy", "science" and "scientific
philosophy", or more abstractly "1-discourse", "2-discourse", and
"3-discourse"?  If we can establish such a categorial distinction, it may
be possible to further state that

"Meaningful debates are possible only within a              (6037-1)
given category of intellectual discourses, not
across categories."

If Statement (6037-1) is true, it may help resolve many debates on this
list (e.g., the debate on whether or not the UAM (Unreasonable
Arbitrariness of Mathematics)is a 3-term or 4-term argument) as well as in
science, philosophy, and religion, in general.

The conclusion that Edwina came to that the UAM thesis commits the fallacy
of four terms, I believe, resulted from Edwina not having taken into
account  of the EXPERIMENTAL EVIDENCE that I provided to support UAM,
namely, the fact that two very different mathematical equations can
account for a given set of experimental data -- (i) the Planckian
distribution and a double exponential function to account for the
single-molecule turnover times of cholseterol oxidase, and (ii) the
Planckian distribution and the ex-Gaussian distribution to account for the
decision-time histogram.   In short, Edwina is talking about "philosophy"
and I "scientific philosophy".


With all the best.

Sung
_____________________________________________________
Sungchul Ji, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology
Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology
Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy
Rutgers University
Piscataway, N.J. 08855
732-445-4701

www.conformon.net




> Hello Sung,
> I would like to bring your attention to Reism (Kotarbiński).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reism
>
> Just food for thoughts,
> Regards,
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sungchul Ji [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2014 7:03 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [biosemiotics:6035] [Fwd: AW: "Unreasonable Arbitrariness of
> Mathematics":: Evidence]
>
> Hi,
>
> The following response from Ed Dellian seems to raise an interesting
> possibility for evaluating the UAM thesis.  According to Ed, I should not
> include geometry as a part of "mathematics" in the expression
> "Unreasonable Arbitrariness of Mathematics (UAM)".  I tend to agree with
> him, since my evidence supporting UAM comes mainly from algebra, not
> geometry.  If this turns out to be true on further inquiry, then the UAM
> thesis may have to be modified as
>
> "The Unreasonable Arbitrariness of Algebra (UAA)"              (070214-1)
>
>
> With all the best.
>
> Sung
> __________________________________________________
> Sungchul Ji, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology Department of
> Pharmacology and Toxicology Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy Rutgers
> University Piscataway, N.J. 08855
> 732-445-4701
>
> www.conformon.net
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
> Subject: AW: "Unreasonable Arbitrariness of Mathematics":: Evidence
> From:    "Ed Dellian" <[email protected]>
> Date:    Wed, July 2, 2014 5:08 am
> To:      "'Sungchul Ji'" <[email protected]>
>          "'Malcolm Dean'" <malcol
> Hello Sung,
> I would like to bring your attention to Reism (Kotarbiński).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reism
>
> Just food for thoughts,
> Regards,
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sungchul Ji [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2014 7:03 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [biosemiotics:6035] [Fwd: AW: "Unreasonable Arbitrariness of
> Mathematics":: Evidence]
>
> Hi,
>
> The following response from Ed Dellian seems to raise an interesting
> possibility for evaluating the UAM thesis.  According to Ed, I should not
> include geometry as a part of "mathematics" in the expression
> "Unreasonable Arbitrariness of Mathematics (UAM)".  I tend to agree with
> him, since my evidence supporting UAM comes mainly from algebra, not
> geometry.  If this turns out to be true on further inquiry, then the UAM
> thesis may have to be modified as
>
> "The Unreasonable Arbitrariness of Algebra (UAA)"              (070214-1)
>
>
> With all the best.
>
> Sung
> __________________________________________________
> Sungchul Ji, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology Department of
> Pharmacology and Toxicology Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy Rutgers
> University Piscataway, N.J. 08855
> 732-445-4701
>
> www.conformon.net
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
> Subject: AW: "Unreasonable Arbitrariness of Mathematics":: Evidence
> From:    "Ed Dellian" <[email protected]>
> Date:    Wed, July 2, 2014 5:08 am
> To:      "'Sungchul Ji'" <[email protected]>
>          "'Malcolm Dean'" <[email protected]>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dear Sung,
>
>
>
> you're absolutely right on UAM with respect to arithmetic and algebra.
>
> This branch of mathematics is arbitrary as it is a product of human logic
> and reason only, based on logic, and therefore - as all of logic -
> ultimately based on the principle of non-contradiction. In arithmetic and
> algebra, this principle appears as the tautology " A = A " (equivalently,
> "A is not "non-A"), on which all "equations" are built. As a consequence,
> different mathematical equations can fit to describe experimental data,
> none of which equations tells anything about the real meaning of the data.
>
> It was Leibniz who held the principle A = A “to be the foundation of
> "all of mathematics" (see Leibniz's second letter to Caroline Princess of
> Wales, paragraph 1, in: The Leibniz-Clarke exchange of letters, 1715/6).
> But Leibniz was wrong when he included Euclidean geometry. This geometry
> is not an „arbitrary“ human product but is rooted in Nature
> herself:
> it is the “language of Nature” (Galileo, 1623). Therefore,
> Galileo and Newton chose Euclidean geometry as the mathematical tool for
> their natural philosophy and the theory of motion. Note that
> Galileo’s Discorsi of
> 1638 (I’ve edited a new German translation recently) and
> Newton’s Principia (which I edited in German in 1988) as well are
> throughout based on synthetic geometry, not on the calculus
> differentialis! This “synthetic” geometry (contrary to
> arithmetic and algebra, and also contrary to Cartesian analytical
> geometry) knows a non-tautological principle A : B = C = constant (the
> principle of proportionality of heterogeneous entities A * B) that allows
> for a rational mathematical relation between natural entities of a
> different kind – a relation that would be impossible in arithmetic
> and algebra. (Note that algebra doesn’t know the basic
> “algorithm” of proportion theory A/B = C = constant, nor does
> it know natural constants which actually always are geometric
> proportionality constants). And, this is the reason why synthetic geometry
> passes the analytic power of tautological arithmetic and algebra, and even
> allows for discovering the
>   unknown on the basis of the known. Whenever natural experience brings
> lawful relations between heterogeneous natural entities to light, as for
> instance the relation between “energy” E and
> “momentum” p in applications of the Maxwell theory, the
> correct resulting mathematical description will always be a geometric
> proportionality that mirrors the naturally existing structure, not
> something that has been taken from the human brain and arbitrarily
> imposed on nature. This was the case when John Henry Poynting (1884)
> discovered the relation E/p = c = constant. The same thing happened when
> Planck found a relation between “energy” E and the frequency
> f of light, a relation that urged him to form the relation E/f = h =
> constant.
> This is a geometric proportionality again according to the pattern A/B = C
> = constant. Geometric proportion theory also provides the basic structure
> of the double helix which is a quaternate proportion according to A : B =
> C : D. Therefore natural science should eventually accept the truth that
> “The language of nature is not algebra” (cf. my 2012 essay on
> my website www.neutonus-reformatus.com
> <http://www.neutonus-reformatus.com/>
> ).
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Ed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Sungchul Ji [mailto:[email protected]]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. Juli 2014 01:38
> An: Malcolm Dean
> Betreff: Re: "Unreasonable Arbitrariness of Mathematics":: Evidence
>
>
>
> Malcolm,
>
>
>
> Did I attach the evidence for UAM (unreasonable aribtrariness of
>
> mathematics) to this email ?  If not, it is now attached below.
>
>
>
> As you can see in the table attached, each of the two sets of experimental
>
> data, i.e., the single-molecule enzyme kinetic data and the decision-time
>
> histogram, can be fit into two very different mathematical equations --
>
> the Planck distribution and a double-exponential function for the former
>
> and the Planck distribution and the ex-Gaussian distribution for the
>
> latter.  These recent findings of mine suggested to me that mathematical
>
> models may be arbitrary.  In fact you do not need any experimental data to
>
> come to such a conclusion, since the same conclusion can be reached at by
>
> simply combining the definition of the sign given by Peirce and the
>
> linguistic principle of the arbitrariness of signs apparently first
>
> articulated by Ferdinand de Saussure:
>
>
>
> “Mathematics is a species of the sign according to Peirce.
> (070114-1)
>
> All signs are arbitrary according to Saussure. Therefore,
>
> mathematics is arbitrary.”
>
>
>
> Let me refer to Statement (070114-1) as the UAM (Unreasonable
>
> Arbitrariness of Mathematics) thesis.  If we apply the UAM thesis to
>
> quantum mechanics (as a body of experimental data on the microscopic
>
> world), it may be predicted that
>
>
>
> “There should exist at least two mathematical models of
> (070114-2)
>
> quantum phenomena that are compatible with all known
>
> experimental data.”
>
>
>
> I suggest that Prediction (070114-2) based on the UAM thesis has been
>
> validated by the fact that physicists, after over one century of  quantum
>
> mechanical research,  are still passionately debating as to which of the
>
> two theories are true – i) the non-deterministic, probability-wave
> theory
>
> of Bohr, Bon, Heisenberg, etc, or ii) the deterministic, pilot-wave theory
>
> of de Broglie, Schroedinger, Einstein, Bohm, and their more recent
>
> followers, including my fellow professor at Rutgers, S. Goldstein, and his
>
> research group.
>
>
>
> Since Statement (071014-2) seems to be well supported by the modern
>
> history of physics, it may be further asserted that
>
>
>
> “The century-old debate between Einstein and Bohr on
> (070114-3)
>
> the mathematical nature of quantum mechanics may be
>
> ascribed to the principle of the arbitrariness of
>
> mathematics specifically and the principle of the
>
> arbitrariness of signs more generally.  There may be
>
> neither winner nor loser on this debate, since both
>
> schools of thought can be judged valid within their
>
> own theoretical framework.”
>
>
>
> If the above argument proves to be valid, the century-old debate in
>
> physics may end up being finally solved by the knowledge gained outside of
>
> physics, namely in biology, linguyistics and semiotics. It is possible
>
> that the problem under debate is/was too complex to be resoved within
>
> physics, just as some of the current probelms fased in biology may turn
>
> oout to be too difficult to be solved within biology or even within
>
> natural sciences assisted by mathemtics and high-power computer science.
>
>
>
> With all the best.
>
>
>
> Sung
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>  Sungchul Ji, Ph.D.
>
> Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology
>
> Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology
>
> Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy
>
> Rutgers University
>
> Piscataway, N.J. 08855
>
> 732-445-4701
>
>
>
> www.conformon.net
>
>
>
>
>
>> Thanks.
>
>>
>
>> I think the enthusiasm with which mathematicians present their
>> "accuracy"
>
>> is produced by very narrow observations of the phenomena which happen
>> to
>
>> match their expectations. The world is fuzzy and messy, except in rare
>
>> cases. The mathematics students I have observed have little
>
>> self-reflection. They do not see that their mathematical experiences
>> are
>
>> special mental abilities, similar to religious states, in that
>> mathematics
>
>> is a form of generalization. I once asked Sean Carroll about the
>> ontology
>
>> of his particle physics. "They are just numbers, statistics," he
>> replied.
>
>>
>
>> My departed friends, Michel and Francoise Gauquelin, once set out to
>
>> finally disprove Astrology. They gathered large statistical databases
>
>> (30k)
>
>> and compared planetary positions at birth with adult professions. And
>> lo!
>
>> Given a complicated statistical method, they were able to demonstrate
>> a
>
>> significant correlation. American skeptics decided that since this was
>> the
>
>> most promising evidence for planetary effects in human affairs, a
>> simple
>
>> replication would provide a knock-out blow to the superstition. And lo!
>
>> With a U.S. sample size of 15k, they replicated the findings of the
>
>> Gauquelins. Did they honestly report the results? Of course not. The
>
>> statistical method was now "problematic" and "unclear." The results
>> were
>
>> "dubious."
>
>>
>
>> Personally, I no longer care whether planetary effects are
>> acknowledged,
>
>> or
>
>> whether psi is shown to exist. I'm satisfied that a bunch of skeptics
>
>> proved that mathematicians can lie just like the rest of us.
>
>>
>
>> M.
>
>>
>
>> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 4:20 AM, Sungchul Ji <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>
>>
>
>>> Hi,
>
>>>
>
>>> In 1960, Eugene Wigner made the following statement in a paper with
>>> the
>
>>> now-iconic title, “Unreasonable Effectiveness of
> Mathematics”.  In
>
>>> it, he
>
>>> cites a question presumably raised by one of his students at
>>> Princeton
>
>>> (hence I will refer to it as the “Werner
>>> question” for
> convenience):
>
>>>
>
>>> ". . . someone came to me and expressed his   bewilderment  [The
>
>>> remark to be quoted was made by F. Werner when he was a student in
>
>>> Princeton.] . . . with  the fact that we make  a rather narrow
>>> selection
>
>>> when choosing the  data on which we test our theories.
>
>>>
>
>>> ‘How do we know that, if we made a theory which
>>> (062914-1)
>
>>> focuses its attention on phenomena we disregard
>
>>> and disregards some of the phenomena now commanding
>
>>> our attention, that we could not build another theory
>
>>> which has little in common with the present one but
>
>>> which, nevertheless, explains just as many phenomena
>
>>> as the present theory?’
>
>>>
>
>>> It has to be admitted that we have no definite evidence
>
>>> that there is no such theory."
>
>>>
>
>>> Reading between the lines, it seems reasonable to infer that Wigner
>>> was
>
>>> fully aware of the incompleteness of his famous thesis that
>
>>>
>
>>> “Mathematics is unreasonably effective.”
> (062914-2)
>
>>> which we may refer to as the “Wigner
>>> thesis”.
>
>>>
>
>>>  In other words,
>
>>>
>
>>> “The Wigner thesis cannot provide any definitive
>>> (062914-3)
>
>>> answer to the Werner question, neither positive
>
>>> nor negative, and hence is incomplete.”
>
>>>
>
>>> The reason that the Wigner thesis is incomplete is because  of
>
>>>
>
>>> “The Unreasonable Arbitrariness of Mathematics
>>> (UAM)”
>
>>> (062914-4)
>
>>>
>
>>> The purpose of this email is to bring to your attention some recent
>
>>> developments in theoretical biology (see Table 1 attached) that
>>> support
>
>>> the UAM thesis:  i.e.,
>
>>>
>
>>> “Two or more mathematical models can simulate a given
>>>  (062914-5)
>
>>> set of experimental data, just as two or more signs
>
>>> can represent a given object  in semiotics.”
>
>>>
>
>>> I  think  Statement (062914-5) is consistent with the facts (i) that
>
>>> mathematical models are examples of Peircean signs (or, more
>
>>> specifically,
>
>>> the ‘argument-symbolic-legisign’) and
>>> (ii) that all
>>> signs are
>
>>> arbitrary ,
>
>>> according to Saussure’s thesis of the
>>> “Arbitrariness of
> Signs”
>
>>> [2].  I am
>
>>> assuming here that
>
>>>
>
>>> “Saussure’s dyadic theory of signs can
>>> be viewed as
> (062914-6)
>
>>> a reduced version of Peirce’s triadic theory of signs
>
>>> -- reduced in the sense that the role of the semiotic
>
>>> agent was not EXPLICITLY taken into account.”
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> With all the best.
>
>>>
>
>>> Sung
>
>>> ______________________________________________
>
>>> Sungchul  Ji, Ph.D.
>
>>> Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology
>
>>> Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology
>
>>> Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy
>
>>> Rutgers University
>
>>> Piscataway, N.J. 08855
>
>>> 732-445-4701
>
>>>
>
>>> www.conformon.net
>
>>>
>
>>>    [1] Wigner, E. (1960).  The Unreasonable Effectiveness of
>>> Mathematics
>
>>> in the Natural Sciences.  Communications in Pure and Applied
>
>>> Mathematics 13 (I).  Available at
>
>>> https://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/MathDrama/reading/Wigner.html.
>
>>>    [2] See, for example,
>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_(linguistics).
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>



-----------------------------
PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L 
to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . To 
UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with the 
line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at 
http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .




Reply via email to