Edwina, Helmut, Rob, and list,

According to "reism", as I understand it, objects are "real-real" and the
"relations" among them are "pseudo-real".  So I see no contradiction
between reism and semiotics/semiosis.  It all seems to depend on how one
defines his/her terms, the natural consequence of the principle of the
aribitrariness of signs (?).

With all the best,

Sung
___________________________________________________
Sungchul Ji, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology
Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology
Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy
Rutgers University
Piscataway, N.J. 08855
732-445-4701

www.conformon.net

> Well, reism certainly isn't semiosis, that's for sure! Semiosis rests
> within relations and laws-of-organization.  These laws are definitely not
> objects (i.e., particular entities) but are laws-of-organization and are
> 'real' in the universal or Aristotelian sense of realism. Furthermore, in
> semiosis, no 'thing' or particular unit stands isolate but exists within
> numerous relations.
>
> Edwina
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Helmut Raulien
>   To: [email protected]
>   Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 4:38 PM
>   Subject: [biosemiotics:6038] Re:
>
>
>   Hi Rob, Sung, Edwina, List,
>   This reism is fantastic! I love it. It has the power to set us free
> from- well, many things that make us unfree. How many things in our
> everyday-life do we regard for objects, but for real they are just
> relations, conditions? Conditions perhaps are just conditions as long as
> we regard them for objects, which they are not. Every object has a body,
> and we have bodies, but social conditions dont. It reminds me of Kant:
> The human doesnt have value, but dignity. The body makes the object, is
> the dignity. There is no dignity in property, relation, status. I would
> not say, that reism is anarchism, because it does not deny that there is
> something like different property or status, but it is profoundly
> humanistic, because it denies the object status of social relations, but
> not of people. Especially in the country (Germany) where I live in, I
> sense some sickness due to conflation of what someone is and what he or
> she is showing off. In other countries, eg. England, there is some more
> ground-consensus between people, that there is something to just being a
> human, i have read somewhere. Mathematics: Are there objects in the
> sense of bodies in mathematics, or only variables with values? Does a
> variable have a body?
>
>   Gesendet: Mittwoch, 02. Juli 2014 um 20:56 Uhr
>   Von: "Robert Boroch" <[email protected]>
>   An: [email protected]
>   Betreff: [biosemiotics:6037] Re:
>   Hello Sung,
>   I would like to bring your attention to Reism (Kotarbiński).
>
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reism
>
>   Just food for thoughts,
>   Regards,
>   Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Sungchul Ji [mailto:[email protected]]
>   Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2014 7:03 PM
>   To: [email protected]
>   Subject: [biosemiotics:6035] [Fwd: AW: "Unreasonable Arbitrariness of
> Mathematics":: Evidence]
>
>   Hi,
>
>   The following response from Ed Dellian seems to raise an interesting
> possibility for evaluating the UAM thesis. According to Ed, I should not
> include geometry as a part of "mathematics" in the expression
> "Unreasonable Arbitrariness of Mathematics (UAM)". I tend to agree with
> him, since my evidence supporting UAM comes mainly from algebra, not
> geometry. If this turns out to be true on further inquiry, then the UAM
> thesis may have to be modified as
>
>   "The Unreasonable Arbitrariness of Algebra (UAA)" (070214-1)
>
>
>   With all the best.
>
>   Sung
>   __________________________________________________
>   Sungchul Ji, Ph.D.
>   Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology Department of
> Pharmacology and Toxicology Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy Rutgers
> University Piscataway, N.J. 08855
>   732-445-4701
>
>   www.conformon.net
>
>
>
>
>   ---------------------------- Original Message
> ----------------------------
>   Subject: AW: "Unreasonable Arbitrariness of Mathematics":: Evidence
>   From: "Ed Dellian" <[email protected]>
>   Date: Wed, July 2, 2014 5:08 am
>   To: "'Sungchul Ji'" <[email protected]>
>   "'Malcolm Dean'" <[email protected]>
>   --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   Dear Sung,
>
>
>
>   you're absolutely right on UAM with respect to arithmetic and algebra.
>
>   This branch of mathematics is arbitrary as it is a product of human
> logic and reason only, based on logic, and therefore - as all of logic -
> ultimately based on the principle of non-contradiction. In arithmetic
> and algebra, this principle appears as the tautology " A = A "
> (equivalently, "A is not "non-A"), on which all "equations" are built.
> As a consequence, different mathematical equations can fit to describe
> experimental data, none of which equations tells anything about the real
> meaning of the data.
>
>   It was Leibniz who held the principle A = A “to be the foundation
> of "all of mathematics" (see Leibniz's second letter to Caroline
> Princess of Wales, paragraph 1, in: The Leibniz-Clarke exchange of
> letters, 1715/6).
>   But Leibniz was wrong when he included Euclidean geometry. This geometry
> is not an „arbitrary“ human product but is rooted in Nature
> herself:
>   it is the “language of Nature� (Galileo, 1623). Therefore,
> Galileo and Newton chose Euclidean geometry as the mathematical tool for
> their natural philosophy and the theory of motion. Note that
> Galileo’s Discorsi of
>   1638 (I’ve edited a new German translation recently) and
> Newton’s Principia (which I edited in German in 1988) as well are
> throughout based on synthetic geometry, not on the calculus
> differentialis! This “synthetic� geometry (contrary to
> arithmetic and algebra, and also contrary to Cartesian analytical
> geometry) knows a non-tautological principle A : B = C = constant (the
> principle of proportionality of heterogeneous entities A * B) that
> allows for a rational mathematical relation between natural entities of
> a different kind – a relation that would be impossible in
> arithmetic and algebra. (Note that algebra doesn’t know the basic
> “algorithm� of proportion theory A/B = C = constant, nor
> does it know natural constants which actually always are geometric
> proportionality constants). And, this is the reason why synthetic
> geometry passes the analytic power of tautological arithmetic and
> algebra, and even allows for discovering the unknown on the basis of the
> known. Whenever natural experience brings lawful relations between
> heterogeneous natural entities to light, as for instance the relation
> between “energy� E and “momentum� p in
> applications of the Maxwell theory, the correct resulting mathematical
> description will always be a geometric proportionality that mirrors the
> naturally existing structure, not something that has been taken from the
> human brain and arbitrarily imposed on nature. This was the case when
> John Henry Poynting (1884) discovered the relation E/p = c = constant.
> The same thing happened when Planck found a relation between
> “energy� E and the frequency f of light, a relation that
> urged him to form the relation E/f = h = constant.
>   This is a geometric proportionality again according to the pattern A/B =
> C = constant. Geometric proportion theory also provides the basic
> structure of the double helix which is a quaternate proportion according
> to A : B = C : D. Therefore natural science should eventually accept the
> truth that “The language of nature is not algebra� (cf. my
> 2012 essay on my website www.neutonus-reformatus.com
> <http://www.neutonus-reformatus.com/>
>   ).
>
>
>
>   All the best,
>
>
>
>   Ed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>   Von: Sungchul Ji [mailto:[email protected]]
>   Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. Juli 2014 01:38
>   An: Malcolm Dean
>   Betreff: Re: "Unreasonable Arbitrariness of Mathematics":: Evidence
>
>
>
>   Malcolm,
>
>
>
>   Did I attach the evidence for UAM (unreasonable aribtrariness of
>
>   mathematics) to this email ? If not, it is now attached below.
>
>
>
>   As you can see in the table attached, each of the two sets of
> experimental
>
>   data, i.e., the single-molecule enzyme kinetic data and the
> decision-time
>
>   histogram, can be fit into two very different mathematical equations --
>
>   the Planck distribution and a double-exponential function for the former
>
>   and the Planck distribution and the ex-Gaussian distribution for the
>
>   latter. These recent findings of mine suggested to me that mathematical
>
>   models may be arbitrary. In fact you do not need any experimental data
> to
>
>   come to such a conclusion, since the same conclusion can be reached at
> by
>
>   simply combining the definition of the sign given by Peirce and the
>
>   linguistic principle of the arbitrariness of signs apparently first
>
>   articulated by Ferdinand de Saussure:
>
>
>
>   “Mathematics is a species of the sign according to Peirce.
> (070114-1)
>
>   All signs are arbitrary according to Saussure. Therefore,
>
>   mathematics is arbitrary.�
>
>
>
>   Let me refer to Statement (070114-1) as the UAM (Unreasonable
>
>   Arbitrariness of Mathematics) thesis. If we apply the UAM thesis to
>
>   quantum mechanics (as a body of experimental data on the microscopic
>
>   world), it may be predicted that
>
>
>
>   “There should exist at least two mathematical models of (070114-2)
>
>   quantum phenomena that are compatible with all known
>
>   experimental data.�
>
>
>
>   I suggest that Prediction (070114-2) based on the UAM thesis has been
>
>   validated by the fact that physicists, after over one century of quantum
>
>   mechanical research, are still passionately debating as to which of the
>
>   two theories are true – i) the non-deterministic,
> probability-wave theory
>
>   of Bohr, Bon, Heisenberg, etc, or ii) the deterministic, pilot-wave
> theory
>
>   of de Broglie, Schroedinger, Einstein, Bohm, and their more recent
>
>   followers, including my fellow professor at Rutgers, S. Goldstein, and
> his
>
>   research group.
>
>
>
>   Since Statement (071014-2) seems to be well supported by the modern
>
>   history of physics, it may be further asserted that
>
>
>
>   “The century-old debate between Einstein and Bohr on (070114-3)
>
>   the mathematical nature of quantum mechanics may be
>
>   ascribed to the principle of the arbitrariness of
>
>   mathematics specifically and the principle of the
>
>   arbitrariness of signs more generally. There may be
>
>   neither winner nor loser on this debate, since both
>
>   schools of thought can be judged valid within their
>
>   own theoretical framework.�
>
>
>
>   If the above argument proves to be valid, the century-old debate in
>
>   physics may end up being finally solved by the knowledge gained outside
> of
>
>   physics, namely in biology, linguyistics and semiotics. It is possible
>
>   that the problem under debate is/was too complex to be resoved within
>
>   physics, just as some of the current probelms fased in biology may turn
>
>   oout to be too difficult to be solved within biology or even within
>
>   natural sciences assisted by mathemtics and high-power computer science.
>
>
>
>   With all the best.
>
>
>
>   Sung
>
>   _______________________________________________
>
>   Sungchul Ji, Ph.D.
>
>   Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology
>
>   Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology
>
>   Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy
>
>   Rutgers University
>
>   Piscataway, N.J. 08855
>
>   732-445-4701
>
>
>
>   www.conformon.net
>
>
>
>
>
>   > Thanks.
>
>   >
>
>   > I think the enthusiasm with which mathematicians present their
> "accuracy"
>
>   > is produced by very narrow observations of the phenomena which happen
>   > to
>
>   > match their expectations. The world is fuzzy and messy, except in rare
>
>   > cases. The mathematics students I have observed have little
>
>   > self-reflection. They do not see that their mathematical experiences
>   > are
>
>   > special mental abilities, similar to religious states, in that
>   > mathematics
>
>   > is a form of generalization. I once asked Sean Carroll about the
>   > ontology
>
>   > of his particle physics. "They are just numbers, statistics," he
> replied.
>
>   >
>
>   > My departed friends, Michel and Francoise Gauquelin, once set out to
>
>   > finally disprove Astrology. They gathered large statistical databases
>
>   > (30k)
>
>   > and compared planetary positions at birth with adult professions. And
> lo!
>
>   > Given a complicated statistical method, they were able to demonstrate
>   > a
>
>   > significant correlation. American skeptics decided that since this was
>   > the
>
>   > most promising evidence for planetary effects in human affairs, a
>   > simple
>
>   > replication would provide a knock-out blow to the superstition. And
> lo!
>
>   > With a U.S. sample size of 15k, they replicated the findings of the
>
>   > Gauquelins. Did they honestly report the results? Of course not. The
>
>   > statistical method was now "problematic" and "unclear." The results
>   > were
>
>   > "dubious."
>
>   >
>
>   > Personally, I no longer care whether planetary effects are
>   > acknowledged,
>
>   > or
>
>   > whether psi is shown to exist. I'm satisfied that a bunch of skeptics
>
>   > proved that mathematicians can lie just like the rest of us.
>
>   >
>
>   > M.
>
>   >
>
>   > On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 4:20 AM, Sungchul Ji <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>   >
>
>   >> Hi,
>
>   >>
>
>   >> In 1960, Eugene Wigner made the following statement in a paper with
>   >> the
>
>   >> now-iconic title, “Unreasonable Effectiveness of
>   Mathematics�. In
>
>   >> it, he
>
>   >> cites a question presumably raised by one of his students at
>   >> Princeton
>
>   >> (hence I will refer to it as the “Werner
> question� for
>   convenience):
>
>   >>
>
>   >> ". . . someone came to me and expressed his bewilderment [The
>
>   >> remark to be quoted was made by F. Werner when he was a student in
>
>   >> Princeton.] . . . with the fact that we make a rather narrow
>   >> selection
>
>   >> when choosing the data on which we test our theories.
>
>   >>
>
>   >> ‘How do we know that, if we made a theory which
> (062914-1)
>
>   >> focuses its attention on phenomena we disregard
>
>   >> and disregards some of the phenomena now commanding
>
>   >> our attention, that we could not build another theory
>
>   >> which has little in common with the present one but
>
>   >> which, nevertheless, explains just as many phenomena
>
>   >> as the present theory?’
>
>   >>
>
>   >> It has to be admitted that we have no definite evidence
>
>   >> that there is no such theory."
>
>   >>
>
>   >> Reading between the lines, it seems reasonable to infer that Wigner
>   >> was
>
>   >> fully aware of the incompleteness of his famous thesis that
>
>   >>
>
>   >> “Mathematics is unreasonably
> effective.�
>   (062914-2)
>
>   >> which we may refer to as the “Wigner
> thesis�.
>
>   >>
>
>   >> In other words,
>
>   >>
>
>   >> “The Wigner thesis cannot provide any definitive
> (062914-3)
>
>   >> answer to the Werner question, neither positive
>
>   >> nor negative, and hence is incomplete.�
>
>   >>
>
>   >> The reason that the Wigner thesis is incomplete is because of
>
>   >>
>
>   >> “The Unreasonable Arbitrariness of Mathematics
> (UAM)�
>
>   >> (062914-4)
>
>   >>
>
>   >> The purpose of this email is to bring to your attention some recent
>
>   >> developments in theoretical biology (see Table 1 attached) that
>   >> support
>
>   >> the UAM thesis: i.e.,
>
>   >>
>
>   >> “Two or more mathematical models can simulate a given
> (062914-5)
>
>   >> set of experimental data, just as two or more signs
>
>   >> can represent a given object in semiotics.�
>
>   >>
>
>   >> I think Statement (062914-5) is consistent with the facts (i) that
>
>   >> mathematical models are examples of Peircean signs (or, more
>
>   >> specifically,
>
>   >> the ‘argument-symbolic-legisign’) and
> (ii) that all
>   >> signs are
>
>   >> arbitrary ,
>
>   >> according to Saussure’s thesis of the
> “Arbitrariness of
>   Signs�
>
>   >> [2]. I am
>
>   >> assuming here that
>
>   >>
>
>   >> “Saussure’s dyadic theory of signs
> can be viewed as
>   (062914-6)
>
>   >> a reduced version of Peirce’s triadic theory of
> signs
>
>   >> -- reduced in the sense that the role of the semiotic
>
>   >> agent was not EXPLICITLY taken into account.�
>
>   >>
>
>   >>
>
>   >> With all the best.
>
>   >>
>
>   >> Sung
>
>   >> ______________________________________________
>
>   >> Sungchul Ji, Ph.D.
>
>   >> Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology
>
>   >> Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology
>
>   >> Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy
>
>   >> Rutgers University
>
>   >> Piscataway, N.J. 08855
>
>   >> 732-445-4701
>
>   >>
>
>   >> www.conformon.net
>
>   >>
>
>   >> [1] Wigner, E. (1960). The Unreasonable Effectiveness of
>   >> Mathematics
>
>   >> in the Natural Sciences. Communications in Pure and Applied
>
>   >> Mathematics 13 (I). Available at
>
>   >> https://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/MathDrama/reading/Wigner.html.
>
>   >> [2] See, for example,
>
>   >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_(linguistics).
>
>   >>
>
>   >>
>
>   >>
>
>   >>
>
>   >>
>
>   >
>
>
>
>



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