It strikes me that Chesterton's essay provides a great series of examples for a 
lecture on Hume. 

Jay

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2016, at 4:05 PM, "[email protected]" 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Ben,
> 
> A most interesting & valuable post!
> 
> I do hope all involved  in this discussion will pay attention to this 
> response of yours.
> 
> Kirsti
> 
> Ben Novak kirjoitti 16.7.2016 21:00:
>> Dear Helmut and List:
>> Helmut asks: "Can things take habits?"
>> Discussion of Peirce's theory of habit reminds me of G. K.
>> Chesterton's discussion of the logic of fairy tales in "The Ethics of
>> Elfland", which in turn strongly resonates with Peirce's "Neglected
>> Agument." Here is an extract from the former of the part relevant to
>> the current discussion on Peirce-L. Chesterton writes of "a certain
>> way of looking at life, which was created in me by the fairy tales,
>> but has since been meekly ratified by the mere facts.":
>> It might be stated this way. There are certain sequences or
>> developments (cases of one thing following another), which are, in the
>> true sense of the word, reasonable. They are, in the true sense of the
>> word, necessary. Such are mathematical and merely logical sequences.
>> We in fairyland (who are the most reasonable of all creatures) admit
>> that reason and that necessity. For instance, if the Ugly Sisters are
>> older than Cinderella, it is (in an iron and awful sense) necessary
>> that Cinderella is younger than the Ugly Sisters. There is no getting
>> out of it. Haeckel may talk as much fatalism about that fact as he
>> pleases: it really must be. If Jack is the son of a miller, a miller
>> is the father of Jack. Cold reason decrees it from her awful throne:
>> and we in fairyland submit. If the three brothers all ride horses,
>> there are six animals and eighteen legs involved: that is true
>> rationalism, and fairyland is full of it. But as I put my head over
>> the hedge of the elves and began to take notice of the natural world,
>> I observed an extraordinary thing. I observed that learned men in
>> spectacles were talking of the actual things that happened -- dawn and
>> death and so on -- as if they were rational and inevitable. They
>> talked as if the fact that trees bear fruit were just as necessary as
>> the fact that two and one trees make three. But it is not. There is an
>> enormous difference by the test of fairyland; which is the test of the
>> imagination. You cannot imagine two and one not making three. But you
>> can easily imagine trees not growing fruit; you can imagine them
>> growing golden candlesticks or tigers hanging on by the tail. These
>> men in spectacles spoke much of a man named Newton, who was hit by an
>> apple, and who discovered a law. But they could not be got to see the
>> distinction between a true law, a law of reason, and the mere fact of
>> apples falling. If the apple hit Newton's nose, Newton's nose hit the
>> apple. That is a true necessity: because we cannot conceive the one
>> occurring without the other. But we can quite well conceive the apple
>> not falling on his nose; we can fancy it flying ardently through the
>> air to hit some other nose, of which it had a more definite dislike.
>> We have always in our fairy tales kept this sharp distinction between
>> the science of mental relations, in which there really are laws, and
>> the science of physical facts, in which there are no laws, but only
>> weird repetitions. We believe in bodily miracles, but not in mental
>> impossibilities. We believe that a Bean-stalk climbed up to Heaven;
>> but that does not at all confuse our convictions on the philosophical
>> question of how many beans make five.
>> Here is the peculiar perfection of tone and truth in the nursery
>> tales. The man of science says, "Cut the stalk, and the apple will
>> fall"; but he says it calmly, as if the one idea really led up to the
>> other. The witch in the fairy tale says, "Blow the horn, and the
>> ogre's castle will fall"; but she does not say it as if it were
>> something in which the effect obviously arose out of the cause.
>> Doubtless she has given the advice to many champions, and has seen
>> many castles fall, but she does not lose either her wonder or her
>> reason. She does not muddle her head until it imagines a necessary
>> mental connection between a horn and a falling tower. But the
>> scientific men do muddle their heads, until they imagine a necessary
>> mental connection between an apple leaving the tree and an apple
>> reaching the ground. They do really talk as if they had found not only
>> a set of marvellous facts, but a truth connecting those facts. They do
>> talk as if the connection of two strange things physically connected
>> them philosophically. They feel that because one incomprehensible
>> thing constantly follows another incomprehensible thing the two
>> together somehow make up a comprehensible thing. Two black riddles
>> make a white answer.
>> In fairyland we avoid the word "law"; but in the land of science they
>> are singularly fond of it. Thus they will call some interesting
>> conjecture about how forgotten folks pronounced the alphabet, Grimm's
>> Law. But Grimm's Law is far less intellectual than Grimm's Fairy
>> Tales. The tales are, at any rate, certainly tales; while the law is
>> not a law. A law implies that we know the nature of the generalisation
>> and enactment; not merely that we have noticed some of the effects. If
>> there is a law that pick-pockets shall go to prison, it implies that
>> there is an imaginable mental connection between the idea of prison
>> and the idea of picking pockets. And we know what the idea is. We can
>> say why we take liberty from a man who takes liberties. But we cannot
>> say why an egg can turn into a chicken any more than we can say why a
>> bear could turn into a fairy prince. As ideas, the egg and the chicken
>> are further off from each other than the bear and the prince; for no
>> egg in itself suggests a chicken, whereas some princes do suggest
>> bears. Granted, then, that certain transformations do happen, it is
>> essential that we should regard them in the philosophic manner of
>> fairy tales, not in the unphilosophic manner of science and the "Laws
>> of Nature." When we are asked why eggs turn to birds or fruits fall in
>> autumn, we must answer exactly as the fairy godmother would answer if
>> Cinderella asked her why mice turned to horses or her clothes fell
>> from her at twelve o'clock. We must answer that it is magic. It is not
>> a "law," for we do not understand its general formula. It is not a
>> necessity, for though we can count on it happening practically, we
>> have no right to say that it must always happen. It is no argument for
>> unalterable law (as Huxley fancied) that we count on the ordinary
>> course of things. We do not count on it; we bet on it. We risk the
>> remote possibility of a miracle as we do that of a poisoned pancake or
>> a world-destroying comet. We leave it out of account, not because it
>> is a miracle, and therefore an impossibility, but because it is a
>> miracle, and therefore an exception. All the terms used in the science
>> books, "law," "necessity," "order," "tendency," and so on, are really
>> unintellectual, because they assume an inner synthesis, which we do
>> not possess. The only words that ever satisfied me as describing
>> Nature are the terms used in the fairy books, "charm," "spell,"
>> "enchantment." They express the arbitrariness of the fact and its
>> mystery. A tree grows fruit because it is a magic tree. Water runs
>> downhill because it is bewitched. The sun shines because it is
>> bewitched.
>> I deny altogether that this is fantastic or even mystical. We may have
>> some mysticism later on; but this fairy-tale language about things is
>> simply rational and agnostic. It is the only way I can express in
>> words my clear and definite perception that one thing is quite
>> distinct from another; that there is no logical connection between
>> flying and laying eggs. It is the man who talks about "a law" that he
>> has never seen who is the mystic. Nay, the ordinary scientific man is
>> strictly a sentimentalist. He is a sentimentalist in this essential
>> sense, that he is soaked and swept away by mere associations. He has
>> so often seen birds fly and lay eggs that he feels as if there must be
>> some dreamy, tender connection between the two ideas, whereas there is
>> none. A forlorn lover might be unable to dissociate the moon from lost
>> love; so the materialist is unable to dissociate the moon from the
>> tide. In both cases there is no connection, except that one has seen
>> them together. A sentimentalist might shed tears at the smell of
>> apple-blossom, because, by a dark association of his own, it reminded
>> him of his boyhood. So the materialist professor (though he conceals
>> his tears) is yet a sentimentalist, because, by a dark association of
>> his own, apple-blossoms remind him of apples. But the cool rationalist
>> from fairyland does not see why, in the abstract, the apple tree
>> should not grow crimson tulips; it sometimes does in his country.
>>  This elementary wonder, however, is not a mere fancy derived from
>> the fairy tales; on the contrary, all the fire of the fairy tales is
>> derived from this. Just as we all like love tales because there is an
>> instinct of sex, we all like astonishing tales because they touch the
>> nerve of the ancient instinct of astonishment. This is proved by the
>> fact that when we are very young children we do not need fairy tales:
>> we only need tales. Mere life is interesting enough. A child of seven
>> is excited by being told that Tommy opened a door and saw a dragon.
>> But a child of three is excited by being told that Tommy opened a
>> door. Boys like romantic tales; but babies like realistic tales --
>> because they find them romantic. In fact, a baby is about the only
>> person, I should think, to whom a modern realistic novel could be read
>> without boring him. This proves that even nursery tales only echo an
>> almost pre-natal leap of interest and amazement. These tales say that
>> apples were golden only to refresh the forgotten moment when we found
>> that they were green. They make rivers run with wine only to make us
>> remember, for one wild moment, that they run with water. I have said
>> that this is wholly reasonable and even agnostic.
>> [I do not know why the last paragraph copied in a different font size
>> than the ones before..., but you can find the whole essay in a
>> singular font online at:
>> http://www.cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/orthodoxy/ch4.html [5]
>> Best,
>> Ben Novak
>> BEN NOVAK [6]
>> 5129 Taylor Drive, Ave Maria, FL 34142
>> Telephone: (814) 808-5702
>> _"All art is mortal, __not merely the individual artifacts, but the
>> arts themselves._ _One day the last portrait of Rembrandt_ _and the
>> last bar of Mozart will have ceased to be—__though possibly a
>> colored canvas and a sheet of notes may remain—__because the last
>> eye and the last ear accessible to their message __will have gone."
>> _Oswald Spengler
>> On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Helmut Raulien <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> Dear Gary F., list,
>>> you wrote:
>>> "Peirce says here that ‘the law of habit’ – as opposed to the
>>> ‘fundamental law of mind,’ which is the _tendency_ of all things
>>> to _take_ habits – ‘is a simple formal law, a law of efficient
>>> causation.’".
>>> I donot think, that things can take habits. I think, only organisms
>>> can. Also I think, that efficient cause cannot form a habit, but
>>> only final cause can, which final cause is only a cause of
>>> organisms, but not of inanimate nature. (and example cause too,
>>> nervous animals/brain, but that is only my hobby topic). Ok, the
>>> whole universe may well be an organism (and something comparable to
>>> a brain animal too), but then it is the universe, that takes habits,
>>> not the things. By the way: What about binary laws, eg. the
>>> conservation laws, that only make sense if being exact? (Energy is
>>> exactly conserved). There is no way for them to might have evolved
>>> by growth of any kind. They are, if habits, saltatory emergent ones.
>>> So habits, if you want to expand the term like Peirce did, are not
>>> only growth affairs, but can be emergent too. See my last post in
>>> the thread "the autors claim...". Binary laws cannot be due to "ever
>>> so minute changes", and if Peirce has claimed that, he was wrong, I
>>> think. Imagine a universe, in which energy is not exactly conserved,
>>> but increases: This universe would glow white hot and explode in
>>> nearly no time. If energy would decrease, it would immediately
>>> shrink, cool down, and vanish. Peirce is not an overwise guru, he
>>> might have been wrong in one or the other minor aspect, but all in
>>> all he did a good job, and was right. But in this case, there is a
>>> problem, I think. So please do not answer with Peirce-quotations,
>>> but with your own thoughts. Can things take habits??
>>> Best,
>>> Helmut
>>> 13. Juli 2016 um 17:39 Uhr
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> Here’s another Peircean post from my blog, a rather long one
>>> linking Peirce’s cosmology with semiotic causality.
>>> Gary f.
>>> According to Peirce’s cosmological hypothesis, evolution is a
>>> continuing process of _growth_ which accounts for both the diversity
>>> and the regularities we observe in a universe both mental and
>>> physical.
>>> The regularities or ‘laws’ of nature result from the
>>> habit-taking tendency, which tends toward the extreme
>>> ‘crystallization’ of form which in physics we call ‘matter.’
>>> But the behavior patterns of the physical universe are never
>>> completely determinate, the laws of nature never absolutely exact,
>>> because the habit-taking tendency is countered and complemented by a
>>> spontaneity which keeps the universe alive and accounts for the
>>> growing diversity and complexity of forms. This spontaneity is
>>> primal to the mental side of evolution, which involves both taking
>>> and breaking habits.
>>> Here is Peirce’s explanation of the ‘Uniformity’ of nature in
>>> Baldwin’s Dictionary [1]:
>>> The hypothesis suggested by the present writer is that all laws are
>>> results of evolution; that underlying all other laws is the only
>>> tendency which can grow by its own virtue, the tendency of all
>>> things to take habits. Now since this same tendency is the one sole
>>> fundamental law of mind, it follows that the physical evolution
>>> works towards ends in the same way that mental action works towards
>>> ends, and thus in one aspect of the matter it would be perfectly
>>> true to say that final causation is alone primary. Yet, on the other
>>> hand, the law of habit is a simple formal law, a law of efficient
>>> causation; so that either way of regarding the matter is equally
>>> true, although the former is more fully intelligent. Meantime, if
>>> law is a result of evolution, which is a process lasting through all
>>> time, it follows that no law is absolute. That is, we must suppose
>>> that the phenomena themselves involve departures from law analogous
>>> to errors of observation. But the writer has not supposed that this
>>> phenomenon had any connection with free-will. In so far as evolution
>>> follows a law, the law of habit, instead of being a movement from
>>> homogeneity to heterogeneity, is growth from difformity to
>>> uniformity. But the chance divergences from law are perpetually
>>> acting to increase the variety of the world, and are checked by a
>>> sort of natural selection and otherwise (for the writer does not
>>> think the selective principle sufficient), so that the general
>>> result may be described as ‘organized heterogeneity,’ or,
>>> better, rationalized variety. In view of the principle of
>>> continuity, the supreme guide in framing philosophical hypotheses,
>>> we must, under this theory, regard matter as mind whose habits have
>>> become fixed so as to lose the powers of forming them and losing
>>> them, while mind is to be regarded as a chemical genus of extreme
>>> complexity and instability. It has acquired in a remarkable degree a
>>> habit of taking and laying aside habits. The fundamental divergences
>>> from law must here be most extraordinarily high, although probably
>>> very far indeed from attaining any directly observable magnitude.
>>> But their effect is to cause the laws of mind to be themselves of so
>>> fluid a character as to simulate divergences from law. All this,
>>> according to the writer, constitutes a hypothesis capable of being
>>> tested by experiment.
>>> Peirce says here that ‘the law of habit’ – as opposed to the
>>> ‘fundamental law of mind,’ which is the _tendency_ of all things
>>> to _take_ habits – ‘is a simple formal law, a law of efficient
>>> causation.’ Ten years earlier, in his ‘Reply to the
>>> Necessitarians,’ Peirce had written that the necessitarian, while
>>> believing that irregular events are inexplicable, also says
>>> that the laws of nature are immutable and ultimate facts, and no
>>> account is to be given of them. But my hypothesis of spontaneity
>>> does explain irregularity, in a certain sense; that is, it explains
>>> the general fact of irregularity, though not, of course, what each
>>> lawless event is to be. At the same time, by thus loosening the bond
>>> of necessity, it gives room for the influence of another kind of
>>> causation, such as seems to be operative in the mind in the
>>> formation of associations, and enables us to understand how the
>>> uniformity of nature could have been brought about. (W8:123, CP
>>> 6.60)
>>> This ‘other kind of causation’ is called by Jesper Hoffmeyer
>>> _semiotic causality_, which ‘gives direction to efficient
>>> causality, while efficient causality gives power to semiotic
>>> causality’ (Hoffmeyer 2008, 64). This duality or complementarity
>>> of causes accounts for the two sides of evolution, the physical and
>>> the psychical or mental.
>>> Semiotic causality is implicit in Peirce’s definitions of
>>> ‘sign,’ which generally follow the path of _determination_
>>> object > sign > interpretant:
>>> I will say that a sign is anything, of whatsoever mode of being,
>>> which mediates between an object and an interpretant; since it is
>>> both determined by the object _relatively to the interpretant_, and
>>> determines the interpretant _in reference to the object_, in such
>>> wise as to cause the interpretant to be determined by the object
>>> through the mediation of this ‘sign.’ (EP2:410)
>>> The reverse side of this path of determination is a path of
>>> representation: the sign _represents_ the object _to_ the
>>> interpretant, which then represents the sign – by determining
>>> another interpretant sign, or else a ‘habit-change,’ which is
>>> both an end of semiotic causality and a governor of efficient
>>> causation, i.e. a determinant of future transformations in the
>>> physical realm. Any actual occurrence of semiotic
>>> _determination_/_representation_ must itself determine and represent
>>> a change in a state of mind, quasi-mind or bodymind: in other words,
>>> it must _make a difference_ to that bodymind, and this difference is
>>> _both_ semiotically and efficiently caused.
>>> In other words, the _logical interpretant_ of a sign, as a
>>> ‘habit-change’ or modification of the guidance system which
>>> ‘gives direction’ to the subsequent _practice_ of the guided
>>> system or bodymind, will determine the energetic interpretants [2]
>>> of future signs, which over time will make the path of practice by
>>> walking it. This in turn will make a difference to the physical (as
>>> well as the mental) context of further semiosis.
>>> In terms of evolutionary biology, the way a type of organism
>>> interacts with its environment can effect changes in both organism
>>> and environment, which may in turn affect the ability of the species
>>> to be represented in another generation of organisms. Over time,
>>> then, natural selection will weed out the _ethos_ which does not
>>> maintain its viability as an occupant of its ecological niche. But
>>> natural selection must have a variety of possibilities to select
>>> from, and does not in itself account for that variety. Hence the
>>> need for the hypothesis that spontaneity or ‘chance’ is a primal
>>> element in an evolving universe such as the one we all inhabit.
>>> } Freedom lies only in our innate human capacity to choose between
>>> different sorts of bondage, bondage to desire or self esteem, or
>>> bondage to the light that lightens all our lives. [Sri Madhava] {
>>> http://gnusystems.ca/wp/ [3] }{ _Turning Signs_ gateway
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>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] http://www.gnusystems.ca/BaldwinPeirce.htm#Uniformity
>> [2] http://gnusystems.ca/TS/prx.htm#semenerg
>> [3] http://gnusystems.ca/wp/
>> [4] http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm
>> [5] http://www.cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/orthodoxy/ch4.html
>> [6] http://bennovak.net
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