Dear Jon, Edwina, and list.

Thank you for your comments and questions. I am writing an explanation of
the class #5 that also explains a little bit of how I see the expanded
system functioning. I will send it to the list soon.

Meanwhile, uploaded the images that didn't appear in the message on my
drive, so you can access them.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1uOeYN-OVCdBttajsRRNYmsi5KTLr0V1K?usp=sharing

Priscila

Em qui., 30 de abr. de 2020 às 22:01, Jon Alan Schmidt <
[email protected]> escreveu:

> Priscila, List:
>
> Welcome!  Unfortunately, none of the graphics came through in your post;
> typically we have to include those as attached files, which makes it
> difficult to reference so many of them within the text of a message.
>
> I suspect that "tree structure" has become a misnomer for this thread by
> now.  We were originally contrasting the familiar *linear* ordering of
> three, six, or ten trichotomies to obtain 10, 28, or 66 sign classes with
> the *hierarchical *approach that Peirce suggested in a late 1909 Logic
> Notebook entry, as discussed by Francesco Bellucci at the end of chapter 8
> in *Peirce's Speculative Grammar:  Logic as Semiotics*.
>
> I appreciate the work that you have done over the years on the ten
> trichotomies and 66 sign classes, especially the visualizations, although I
> disagree about the proper logical sequence of the fifth through ninth
> divisions.  For reasons that I have explained recently on the List, I
> believe that the destinate and explicit interpretants (EP 2:481, 1908)
> correspond respectively to the final and immediate interpretants, rather
> than the other way around; that all three interpretant divisions come
> before both sign-interpretant relation divisions; and that the S-FI
> division comes before the S-DI division, as Peirce himself affirmed (CP
> 8.338, 1904).  Even so, it is interesting to note that these adjustments do
> not affect the order of the five trichotomies for obtaining 21 sign classes
> as presented in your 2015 paper.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA
> Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Layman
> www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 7:08 PM Priscila Borges <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Helmut, Robert and list,
>>
>> I've been following this topic on the tree-structure trying to understand
>> why a tree-structure would not lead to 66 sign classes.
>>
>> Robert said:
>>
>> "*If you put a tree structure on the ten trichotomies you can say
>> probably goodbye to the 66 classes of signs which are coextensive with a
>> linear series of successive determinations*."
>>
>> As you have seen, I've built a model for the system of 66 sign classes
>> based on a tree structure. In that visual model, a tree structure was
>> apllied to the set of 66 sign classes and not to each sign class. That is,
>> to build the system, I adopted an order for the trichotomies, as Peirce did
>> with the 3 tricotomies of the 10 sign classes, and with the 6 tricothomies
>> of the 28 sign classes.
>>
>> I do not undestand why should we not adopt a linear order for the
>> trichotomies. It seems to me that some order of determination between
>> trichotomies is fundamental to reach the classes of signs.
>>
>> This is true for the 10 sign classes, which can only be reached if we
>> follow the [S] > [S-O] > [S-I] order.
>>
>> When Peirce proposes the 28 sign classes he says (SS 84; EP2:481, 1908):
>>
>> "*It is evident that a Possible can determine nothing but a Possible; it
>> is equally so that a Necessitant can be determined by nothing but a
>> Necessitant. Hence it follows from the Definition of a Sign that since the
>> Dynamoid Object determines the Immediate Object,*
>> *which determines the Sign itself,*
>> *which determines the Destinate Interpretant,*
>> *which determines the Effective Interpretant,*
>> *which determines the Explicit Interpretant,*
>> *the six trichotomies, instead of determining 729 classes of signs, as
>> they would if they were independent, only yield 28 classes*"
>>
>> In the 66 sign classes, there is a letter to L. Welby from December 24,
>> 1908 (EP2:483-488), in which Peirce analyses the relation between two
>> trichotomies [S] and [IO]. He says:
>>
>> "*Before proceeding to the third trichotomy, let [us] inquire what
>> relations, if any, are found between the two that have been brought to
>> light. What I mean precisely by between these relations is whether or not
>> the three members of the first trichotomy, which we may for the moment
>> denote as 11, 12, 13, are or are not independent of the three members of
>> the second, which we may denote by 21, 22, 23; so that they form nine
>> classes, which if we use a dot to mean "which is," will be denoted by*
>>
>> 11-21           11-22            11-23
>> 12-21           12-22            12-23
>> 13-21           13-22            13-23
>>
>> *The inquiry ought, one would expect, to be an easy one, since both
>> trichotomies depend on there being three Modes of Presence to the mind,
>> which we may term*
>>
>> *The Immediate,—The Direct,—The Familiar*
>>
>> *Mode of Presence.*
>>
>> *The difference between the two trichotomies is that the one refers to
>> the Presence to the Mind of the Sign and the other to that of the Immediate
>> Object. The Sign may have any Modality of Being, i.e. may belong to any one
>> of the three Universes; its Immediate Object must be in some sense, in
>> which the Sign need not be, Internal.*" (Peirce, 1908, EP2:483-488).
>>
>> It is interesting that he begins the letter presenting the [S]
>>
>> "*I. According to the mode of presentation of the sign itself*
>>
>> *Potisign / Actisign / Famisign*"
>>
>> and then he presents the [IO]
>>
>> "*II. According to the mode of presentation of the immediate object*
>>
>> *Descriptive / Designative / Copulant*"
>>
>> but his analyses on the relationship between these two tricotomies shows
>> that the Immediate Object precedes the Sign and not the contrary (Peirce,
>> 1908, EP2:483-488).
>>
>> The third trichotomy he presents in this letter is the [DO]
>>
>> "*III. According to the nature of the dynamic object*
>>
>> *Abstractive / Concretive / Collective*"
>>
>> And just after presenting it he says:
>>
>> *I was of the opinion that if the Dynamical Object be a mere Possible the
>> Immediate Object could only be of the same nature, while if the Immediate
>> Object were a Tendency or Habit then the Dynamical Object must be of the
>> same nature. Consequently an Abstractive must be a Mark, while a Type must
>> be a Collective, which shows how I conceived Abstractives and Collectives.*"
>> (Peirce, 1908, EP2:489)
>>
>> If the DO is a mere possible, then the IO is a mere possible.
>>
>> If the IO is a tendency, then the DO is a tendency.
>>
>> And here he gives a hint at the order of the trichotomies between the
>> [DO] and [IO]. If the Immediate Object is a tendency and if it preceded the
>> Dynamical object, there would be no restriction for the Dynamical Object to
>> be a tendency, it could be a possible, a fact, or a tendency.
>>
>> It is the same as saying that all Qualisigns are Icons and all Symbols
>> are Legisigns.
>>
>> And this is due to the relationship between the universal categories:
>>
>> “*Firstness is the mode of being of that which is such as it is,
>> positively and without reference to anything else. Secondness is the mode
>> of being of that which is such as it is, with respect to a second but
>> regardless of any third. Thirdness is the mode of being of that which is
>> such as it is, in bringing a second and third into relation to each other.*”
>> (CP 8.328 [1904])
>>
>> It is based on that that I said, as Robert quoted:
>>
>> "*A relation of dependence is established between the three categories
>> as follows: firstness is independent of anything, secondness depends on
>> firstness, and thirdness depends on secondness and firstness.*"
>>
>> Robert, also, asked what is the parallelism that inspered the form of a
>> tree. Let me explain, then.
>>
>> When I created the Signtree visual model, I was inspired by some
>> drawings, specially the following one, which appears in SANDERS, GARY.
>> Peirce's Sixty-six Signs , Charles S. Peirce Society, Transactions, 6:1
>> (1970:Winter):
>>
>> Also, by Peirce's scheme for the degenerated categories (EP2: 162, 1903):
>>
>> And some other drawings I found on Peirce's manuscripts such as:
>>
>> All these structures seem to derive from the tripod being repeated
>> recursively, which results in a tree-structure. The affinity between the
>> growth of the tree and the sign processes is quite obvious, since each
>> bifurcation of a branch results in a triadic structure.
>>
>> That's why I adopted the form of a tree to my visual model and called it
>> Signtree. Because I believe the tree-structure applied to the set of sign
>> classes evinces that they constitute an integrated system. The sign classes
>> should not be understood as pidgeon-holes to qualify signs. Peirce defines
>> semiotics as “the science of the necessary laws of thought” (Peirce c.1896:
>> CP 1.444). Peirce’s classes are not simply a set of categories to qualify
>> signs. They express a logical process for inquiry that makes clear the
>> growth of signs. And that is why I don't represent the classes of signs in
>> boxes separeted one from the other. Instead, I represent them as
>> bifurcating one from the other. This may not be evident on Peirce’s
>> threefold classification system, because in that case the process has only
>> three steps. It begins to appear in Peirce’s tenfold classification, which
>> brings up a process in ten steps. However, the growing process of the sign
>> only becomes explicit in Peirce’s extended system of sixty-six classes.
>>
>> The Signtree model can be used to express any type of class system
>> emphasizing characteristics that are not exclusive of the 66 classes’
>> system, but are essential to Peirce’s semiotics. I've built visual models
>> as this one for all the systems of sign classes and even proposed one with
>> 21 classes.
>>
>> These I published in *The American Journal of Semiotics* 31.3–4 (2015),
>> 245–276. The paper is called "A System of 21 Classes of Signs as an
>> Instrument of Inquiry", its aim is not only to deduce the system of 21
>> classes, but also to allow the reader to understand how each class
>> represents a step in a semiotic inquiry. With that in mind, I also provided
>> an example of how to proceed with a semiotic analysis using the system of
>> 21 classes.
>>
>> I have also published other papers where I apply the 66 sign classes
>> shown in the Signtree as an instrument of inquiry:
>>
>>    - Borges, Priscila (2014). Experience and Cognition in Peirce’s
>>    Semiotics. *The American Journal of Semiotics* 30.1–2, 1–26.
>>    - Borges, Priscila (2019). Confidence through the semiotic process. 
>> *Semiotica
>>    Journal* 228. https://doi.org/10.1515/sem-2018-0083 [image: External]
>>    <https://doi.org/10.1515/sem-2018-0083>
>>    - Borges, Priscila (2020). A Complex System of Sign Classes for
>>    complex Sign Systems. In JAPPY, Tony (ed.). *Bloomsbury Companion to
>>    Contemporary Peircean Semiotics*. Bloomsbury Publishing.
>>
>> Best,
>> Priscila
>>
>>>
-----------------------------
PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L 
to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . To 
UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with the 
line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at 
http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .




Reply via email to