As a side note - there's an interesting paper, by Lucia
Santaella-Braga, on 'Methodeutics; the liveliest branch of
semiotics'. in Semiotica 124[-3/4]. 1999. p 377-395, in which, among
other things [she's reviewing a book by Liszka] she outlines the full
nature of the Interpretants, moving into an examination of 8.344-76,
where she rejects that the terms of ' immediate, dynamical and
logical/final are synonymous with 'emotional, energetic and logical.
See also 'Semiotica' 1996, 'Semiotics in times of maturity.
Semiotica 108 [1/2]; 129-155 where she discusses them in detail.
Edwina
On Sat 23/05/20 4:03 AM , "Helmut Raulien" [email protected] sent:
Jon, List, Peirce is not necessarily always right, is he? "For
evolution is nothing more nor less than the working out of a definite
end", is theism and speculation, isn´t it? One may also assume, that
evolution is continuous adaption without an end. And when he wrote "A
final cause may be conceived to operate without having been the
purpose of any mind", had he forgotten then, that he had claimed that
the universe has a mind? If it has, why should it pursue its own end?
I think doomsdayism is always theistic speculation. The big chill
too, like the big bang, is not scientifically proven. I think, that
evolution itself has a mind, though working quite slowly. A better
example for final cause I see in the needs of organisms, who pursue
an end to these needs. Or their DNA does it for them, which is a
memory of the mind of evolution of their species. Organisms who have
brains apply a third kind of causation, volitional or example
causation: They remember or anticipate something they want to get.
These three kinds of causation are related by analogy to the three
kinds of inference. Best, Helmut 23. Mai 2020 um 04:14 Uhr
"Jon Alan Schmidt"
wrote: Robert, List: Thanks for providing this creative answer
to some of my questions, which I have been pondering carefully. It
confirms that we have very different theories about semeiosis, and
apparently very different interpretations of Peirce's writings on
that subject. For one thing, he explicitly and repeatedly affirms
the reality of final causes, and even points to biological evolution
as a paradigmatic manifestation of them. CSP: Perhaps, since
phrases retain their sway over men's minds long after their meaning
has evaporated, it may be that some reader, even at this day, remains
imbued with the old notion that there are no final causes in nature;
in which case, natural selection, and every form of evolution, would
be false. For evolution is nothing more nor less than the working out
of a definite end. A final cause may be conceived to operate without
having been the purpose of any mind ... but that definite ends are
worked out none of us today any longer deny. Our eyes have been
opened; and the evidence is too overwhelming. (CP 1.204, 1902)
Notice that for Peirce final causes do not entail agency, theistic or
otherwise. He confirms this later in the same manuscript. CSP:
It is, as I was saying, a widespread error to think that a "final
cause" is necessarily a purpose. A purpose is merely that form of
final cause which is most familiar to our experience. (CP 1.211)
However, I will not belabor that point any further. Instead, for
comparison I will try to spell out my own semeiotic analysis of my
previous post, hopefully sometime this weekend. Regards,
Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA Professional Engineer, Amateur
Philosopher, Lutheran Layman www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt [1] -
twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt [2] On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 10:58
AM robert marty wrote: Jon Alan, List
I'd rather we stay on the list. I have clues that suggest that
people are interested; if some are embarrassed they have no
obligation ...
Today I will answer your questions using another rhetorical means,
the parable ...
"A parable is a succinct, didactic story, in prose or verse, that
illustrates one or more instructive lessons or principles"
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable [4] ) ...
I assure you, it will be prose ...
On 05/20/20 at a certain time, in the mind of a person living in
Olathe, Kansas,USA, (the sender), a person who has well-established
and known ideas from the list on the final causes, effective causes,
determinations, ... a subjective theory labelled "JAS" (Od) is formed
the idea of addressing questions to a member of the list in particular
and also to the list (the receiver, the receivers)… he imagines a
series of questions (Oi) that are necessarily determined by his
theory which they carry "in hollow" the mark ... he writes them and
publishes them (S) … its main receiver (his first name is an index
perceived first) perceives this text ... in the course of his reading
his mind is inhabited by more or less blurred mnemonic reminders of a
large number of objects of previous discussions, more or less
interconnected, mixed - as with each of the messages he received from
the same sender - with this following information (index) which never
ceased to amaze him: " Professional Engineer, Philosopher Amateur,
Lutheran Layman". All this has formed in his mind a kind of
"interpretation guide" from which he apprehends the content of the
messages received from this sender, a set to which is added the one
to which I answer by the parable - under construction before my eyes
and soon under yours, i e of all those who will perceive it (read
it). This receiver has therefore, with more or less accuracy,
conceptualized this set. He finds himself obliged, simply to have
read this injunctive message, in which the sender has somehow "
printed his mark", to modify or not his uncertain conceptualization
in which dominates the idea of "predestination" that his studies and
readings have allowed him to associate with Lutheranism (Calvinism
too) and in general protestantism: It's (If) … in immediate
reaction in his mind is recalled his own subjective theory which
contains his long-held opinions on these issues (Ie). He acquired
them early by reading Jacques Monod's 1965 Nobel Prize book ," Hasard
and Necessity," later reinforced by reading René Thom's book, Medall
Field of Mathematics (1958), entitled " Structural Stability and
Morphogenesis, W. A. Benjamin, (1972) ". After a quick confrontation
between the two theories for a possible change in the way he
considers the questions of the final causes and the efficient causes,
he decides not to modify one iota and to communicate this decision to
the person who asked it and to the list (Iex) in the explicit form
that here: "In his world of signs, determinations are efficient
causes and there is no need to incorporate final causes that his own
subjective theory and underlying atheism exclude.".
Best,
Robert (the receiver)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chance_and_Necessity [5]
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