Jon, John, List, JFS: I renamed the subject line to emphasize the stages prior to the derivation of the three branches of normative logic.
JAS: According to Peirce, the only "stages" between phaneroscopy and the normative science of logic as semeiotic are the other two normative sciences, esthetics and ethics. GR: That's correct. John's assertion that "The first stages of phaneroscopy apply formal logic to derive the phenomenological categories and the hypoicons" and his insertion of "formal logic" into phaneroscopy in his diagram of the classification of sciences has *no* support in Peirce and does not appear in his own diagrams and outlines of that classification. JFS: The first stages of phaneroscopy apply formal logic to derive the phenomenological categories and the hypoicons. JAS: According to Peirce, phaneroscopy has no branches [. . .] GR: Yes. But De Tienne and I have independently put forth the idea that the further development of Peirce's science of phenomenology may come to include two additional branches. In his paper, "Iconoscopy Between Phaneroscopy and Semeiotic" ( https://www.erudit.org/en/journals/rssi/2013-v33-n1-2-3-rssi02379/1035282ar/) De Tienne posits a yet undeveloped branch of phenomenology, *iconoscopy*, to follow phanersocopy; and I have suggested that a third branch might also eventually be developed, namely, what I've discussed as *trichotomic category theory* in several papers and on this List. Of course both of these possible branches of phenomenology go beyond the pure practice of phaneroscopy which Peirce outlines. However, this possible development and expansion of phaneroscopy is a topic that I hope we'll consider much later in the slow read of De Tienne's slide presentation, and especially as we approach the anatomy of that 'science egg' which De Tienne sees Peirce's phenomenology as currently being. Jon continued: JAS: It indeed applies formal/mathematical logic (*logica utens*) to derive the categories, but not the hypoicons--those are derived in speculative grammar, the first branch of the normative science of logic as semeiotic (*logica docens*). GR: While I agree that the hypoicons are most certainly not derived in phenomenology but, rather, in logic as semeiotic, I think that it's best to say that a "formal/mathematical logic" *employs* a *logica utens *to derive the categories in mathematics; that is, it shouldn't be identified with it. GR: However, I think that the notion that formal logic derives the categories, while surely true for pure mathematics, is not exactly so for the first cenoscopic science, phaneroscopy/ phenomenology. In a pdf of quotations by Peirce and some valuable comments by various Peirce scholars which De Tienne sent to Jon, Gary Fuhrman, and me yesterday, one item argues that mathematics and phaneroscopy discover the categories "independently." I would tend to strongly agree. Indeed, in one place Peirce argues that the three categories are 'first' discovered in phenomenology and only later confirmed in mathematics through valency theory and the reduction thesis, these representing the 'simplest mathematics' in pure mathematics. In short, the original phaneroscopist, Peirce, observes much more than 1ns, 2ns, and 3ns in the phaneron which, I'd argue, cannot be reduced to those three seen as monad, dyad, and triad (as they are in pure mathematics). So, while I am in general agreement with Jon's remarks, I can't wholly agree with his stating that "None of this is even remotely controversial among Peirce scholars." But I am in full agreement with his final remark. JAS: Again, any classification of the sciences that situates "formal semeiotic" as a branch of phaneroscopy is not *Peirce's* classification of the sciences. After all, "nobody can claim that anything other than an exact quotation is what Peirce intended." The last quotation is, of course, something that John himself wrote. I have myself been at pains to make it clear that De Tienne's and my suggestions as to the possible development of phenomenology in the 21st century most certainly "go beyond'' anything Peirce wrote, while I believe they are not incompatible with his writings on phaneroscopy/ phenomenology. Best, Gary R “Let everything happen to you Beauty and terror Just keep going No feeling is final” ― Rainer Maria Rilke *Gary Richmond* *Philosophy and Critical Thinking* *Communication Studies* *LaGuardia College of the City University of New York* On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 10:05 AM Jon Alan Schmidt <jonalanschm...@gmail.com> wrote: > John, List: > > JFS: I renamed the subject line to emphasize the stages prior to the > derivation of the three branches of normative logic. > > > According to Peirce, the only "stages" between phaneroscopy and the > normative science of logic as semeiotic are the other two normative > sciences, esthetics and ethics. > > JFS: The first stages of phaneroscopy apply formal logic to derive the > phenomenological categories and the hypoicons. > > > According to Peirce, phaneroscopy has no branches. It indeed applies > formal/mathematical logic (*logica utens*) to derive the categories, but > not the hypoicons--those are derived in speculative grammar, the first > branch of the normative science of logic as semeiotic (*logica docens*). > > None of this is even remotely controversial among Peirce scholars. Again, > any classification of the sciences that situates "formal semeiotic" as a > branch of phaneroscopy is not *Peirce's* classification of the sciences. > After all, "nobody can claim that anything other than an exact quotation is > what Peirce intended." > > Regards, > > Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA > Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian > www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt > > On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 10:39 PM John F. Sowa <s...@bestweb.net> wrote: > >> Jon AS, List, >> >> I renamed the subject line to emphasize the stages prior to the >> derivation of the three branches of normative logic. >> >> JAS> I have corrected the subject line since the cited writings by Jappy >> and quoted statements by Peirce are not about phaneroscopy at all, but >> about speculative grammar as the first branch of the normative science of >> logic as semeiotic. >> >> No. The first stages of phaneroscopy apply formal logic to derive the >> phenomenological categories and the hypoicons. Only after that analysis >> has been done can the categories be applied to the analysis of Beauty, >> Goodness, and Truth to derive the normative sciences. >> >> Please note that formal logic (AKA mathematical logic) is the first >> branch of mathematics. Without formal logic, it's impossible to derive the >> categories. >> >> There are 119 instances of the term 'formal logic' in CP, and only 7 >> instances of the term 'logic proper'. And Peirce is inconsistent in his >> use of that term: In the 1903 classification of the sciences, he defined >> 'logic proper' as the triad of speculative grmmar, Critic, and >> methodeutic. But in every use of the term 'logic proper' prior to before >> that classification, he defines it as a synonym for Critic by itself. >> >> By Peirce's own ethics of terminology, the term 'logic proper' was a >> terrible choice. That may be why he stopped using that term aftter those 7 >> inconsistent uses. >> >> John >> > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to > peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . > ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to > l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the > message and nothing in the body. 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