o la la.. Jay Hanson's energy list serv? never been to, but it must be interesting. Jay is a phenomenal guy personality wise. Three basic ideas he subscribes to in every occasion I have been to: 1) genetic roots of authoritarianism 2)inherent destructiveness of human nature 3) inevitability of energy crisis. I *love* Hobbesians when they present themselves as Marxists... bye, Mine >This kind of thing is debated on Jay Hanson's list, where ex-vice >presidents >of PV companies argue that PV's are the future and people answer them >like >this From: Mark Boberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed Jun 28, 2000 11:02pm Subject: PV (was RE: Re: Lynch recap) --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Glenn Lieding [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Investing today's oil-energy in manufacturing, deploying, and > maintaining PV, in order to realize an energy return on that > investment in the future, makes sense if the average rate of energy > made available by the PV, multiplied by the lifespan of the PV, > exceeds the total energy invested. A real world test of PV viability would be for a PV manufacturer to commit to building and operating a PV production facility using only PV power to do it. Solarex (BPAmoco) has a plant with an impressive all-PV roof. I sent them an Email asking whether that plant was self sufficient. Their answer was: no, actually we are the second largest electricity consumer in the county. So, PV industry, if you're listening, here's the challenge: 1) Using your coolest, best, most efficient technology, build say 10 megawatts of PV panels. Acquire all the necessary mounts,trackers, inverters, wire, batteries, controllers, etc. We won't even count the energy required to make all this, its a freebie. 2) Find the best solar site in the World and set up your system there. 3) Locate, lease, and set up the equipment necessary to construct a PV plant from scratch. Select versions of all this stuff that will run on PV electrical power (invent new versions as required - an electric backhoe comes to mind). Use a PV powered truck, train, boat to bring the equipment and raw materials to the site. The lease cost of this stuff will be charged to the future PV production of the plant on an energy basis (ie equivalent PV panel lifetime energy production). 4) Saw the wood, smelt the steel, burn the limestone for the cement, crush the gravel, machine the bolts, dig the dirt,etc, etc, and erect the building, all using the PV from your 10 megawatt system. 5) Locate, lease, and set up the equipment necessary to produce PV panels complete (silicon production, wafer production, panel assembly, etc.) The lease cost for this stuff will also be charged to the future PV production of the plant on an energy basis. 6) Operate the plant, the employee housing, the stores and utilities supporting the employees, all from the 10 megawatt system. Don't forget to pay the employees in scrip redeemable in PV panels. 7) Produce PV panels until "breakeven", which would be something like 10 megawatts worth (item 1) plus a bunch more (items 3, 5 and 6). 8) (Maybe) produce a bunch more "net" panels until the plant wears out. Don't forget to subtract any panels made to replace "burnouts" in your 10 megawatt array and PV panel scrip redemptions by the employees (I'm guessing about one to three 100 watt panels per employee per week). 9) Divide the number of panels produced by the number of "breakeven" panels in item 7). If the number is say, 2.0 or more, you win. Less than 2.0, we all lose. This isn't really an unreasonable challenge, IF PV really has what it takes to replace some significant portion of the hydrocarbon energy demand. So, how about it? Solarex? Siemens? Koyocera? Solec? Anybody?
