Hey, wait a minute! My reply to Doug was redundant. Gene had already raised the points I was trying to make. Doug's quote from Gene was out of context and thus his "reply" to that decontextualized snippet was gratuitous. Sorry, Gene.
On 5/8/08, Sandwichman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 5/8/08, Doug Henwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On May 7, 2008, at 11:02 PM, Eugene Coyle wrote: > > > > > > > Technological progress destroys, doesn't create jobs. > > > > > > > It can destroy jobs or create them. Railroads, cars, telephones, > airplanes, > > and computers all created far more jobs than they destroyed. > > > This is about half right. Some tech progress creates the potential for > new markets for new commodities. But demand for those new commodities > is not intrinsic, it has to be learned and often massively subsidized > with public works spending (e.g., on paved roads, airports). It is the > effective demand for the new products that creates jobs, not the > technology itself. > > Also, the debate about technology creating/destroying jobs is > distorted by reification of what technology is. Technology consists of > both the skills and the tools -- things and social contexts. The > social is primary. You can have tech progress by finding new ways to > use existing tools but you can't have it by using new tools in the old > way. > > The most elemental technologies of capitalism consisted of imposing > new social arrangements -- increasing the hours of work to accomodate > factory production and then limiting the hours of work to accomodate > expanded reproduction and intensification of the work process. > > Ultimately technology is about saving time (wealth is disposable > time... "and nothing more!"). The things Doug mentioned, railroads, > cars, telephones, airplanes, and computers are all supposed to save > their customers time. Whether or not they actually do so is a question > that needs to be asked but rarely is. > > When technologies actually create jobs does that mean they are > "make-work" projects? If so, do proponents of technological progress > thereby commit the make-work (closely allied to the lump-of-labor) > fallacy? > > -- > > Sandwichman > -- Sandwichman _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
