From: "Jim Devine" me: >> I don't know why PK views misogyny as a greater problem than racism >> against Blacks or as persisting longer than racism. How can anyone >> measure such things? <..
Julio Huato answers my rhetorical question: > Well, you can estimate these effects. I want to clarify what I said in this thread. While PK suggests that racism -- but not misogyny -- is fading, I think he's simply referring to what's permissible in public discourse, especially among the commentariat. Overt racism against Obama was taboo, while overt sexism against Clinton was not. ^^^^ CB: I gotta disagree with this. There was a whole bunch of overt racism against Obama. The whole Rev. Wright stuff was racist against Obama. The media has such a low level of consciousness on racism that they don't even realize that it was the attacks on Wright that were racist, not Wright's discussions. But the over all level of consciousness on racism had fallen so low with 25 years of Reaganism, that Obama couldn't take a chance on pointing that out. Too many whites might not get it, and become turned off. The following primaries did show that masses of whites are getting it though, all hail Indiana and North Carolina ! Also, Clinton indulged gross overt racism, appealing to racism for votes when she got desparately behind. This was when she referred to a preference of white bluecollars for her. This even ignored all the white bluecollars voting for Obama in Iowa, Oregon, and many other states. Then there was Ferraro's comments. And others, Just this weekend, Obama came back with his first counter to racism, though his referring to code worded racism , and you mention "overt".: He said, They want you to fear... me. They will say I'm young and inexperienced. They will say I have a funny name. "And Oh, did I mention he's Black." Counterracist offensive officially launched. ^^^^^ But I think there's a large amount of racism outside of elite news commentators -- and that the latter are often closet racists. On the other hand, at least in terms of relative incomes, admissions to professional schools, and the like, misogyny has taken some heavy hits, much more than racism has. ^^^^^ CB: Yes, it is often pointed out that white women made more gains in affirmative action than Black, Brown, Red, etc. people. ^^^^^ Charles Brown points out that one sign of fading misogyny is the fact that "Clinton was a very close second to Obama for the nomination." A very good point. In addition, he says: >However, Krugman is correct to emphasize the important of the Iessening of racism.< This is my impression, too, though as a very pink-skinned fellow, I have little or no personal experience with this. ^^^^^ CB: Here I am referring for large enough numbers of whites voting for Obama for him to win the nomination. That's an objective test of the lessening of racism. The whole election is a test of how much racism has lessened. ^^^^^ My impression is that (in the US) there's a lot of truth to William Julius Wilson's idea of the "declining significance of race." What's happened is the development of major class divisions within the African-American community, with most left behind in the so-called "underclass" but a significant percentage of Black people rising into the middle and even the upper income classes. So racism against Blacks is linked to "classism," parallel to the old distinction between "shanty" and "lace curtain Irish." (The former are the precursor of today's "rednecks" or "trailer trash.") Obama seems to be a "lace curtain" Black. ^^^^^ CB: I'd say it's more like class has less significance when Black people become more equal with Whites. Equality for Black people is a big hit on class divisions. Unity of Black and White spells trouble for the ruling class, the bourgeoisie. Obama seems like a real regular guy, a representative of the working class. ^^^^^ Of course, institutional racism against Blacks isn't completely gone. Immigrant communities seem to continue to have a greater chance at upward mobility than African-Americans do. As usual, I value any corrections or comments. -- Jim Devine / "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your own way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante. _______________________________________________ This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
