ravi wrote: >>> I have made reference, in the past, to the First Law of Thermodynamics or >>> the law of conservation of energy. As we continue to grow our consumption, >>> our material wealth, our populations, etc, we will (and have) cross(ed) a >>> point where we destroy the things that sustain us.<<<
me: >> The first law only works for closed systems. The Earth is not one of these.<< ravi: > I was referring to this simple fact: > http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/firstlaw.html > > The total amount of energy in the universe is constant, although energy can > be transformed from one form to another. So now, we're using the word "growth" as unexplained shorthand to refer not only to (real) GDP growth but also to real GDP growth in the universe as a whole? Beam me up, Scotty! (So if the planet Trafalmadore suffers declining real GDP, does that allow Earth to enjoy more rGDP growth?) >>> how does one define "poverty"?<<< me: >> One definition is as having less economic, political, and social power >> than anyone else in society, thus being dragged down by a vicious >> circle of the sort that Gunnar Myrdal referred to. It's like being in >> quicksand. > I like that definition. I think it works very well with the thesis put forth > by me and with Rahnema in the quoted text -- it doesn't at all depend on > "growth". In theory, capitalist growth -- which indeed is measured using real GDP[*] -- can reduce poverty. In fact, the rGDP surges at the ends of the 1960s and 1990s temporarily lowered official poverty rates and likely other measures based on the absolute definitions of poverty and even those based on relative definitions. Of course, the nature of the business cycle upsurge is that it's temporary, so that poverty rates fall again. My definition suggests that a permanent fall in poverty requires redistribution of power. This might abolish capitalist growth, if done right. [*] Because capitalism is a commodity-producing (market-oriented) society, a measure of market output such as rGDP measures its growth. The growth of the availability of jobs is based on the growth of rGDP (adjusted for market-defined labor productivity growth). Of course, the capitalists themselves only care about the growth of property income (surplus-value), along with finding solutions to the "servant problem" and the like. -- Jim Devine / "Nobody told me there'd be days like these / Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama." -- JL. _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
