Jim Devine writes: >> David: >> > In fact, precisely beause of standardized testing, it is easier to include >> > an objective >> criteria in the evalution of teachers than most other knowledge/information >> producers. >> However, the ultimate issue is who decides. You think the decision should >> be in the >> hands of the teachers, while I think the decision should be in the hands of >> the principal, >> who has the managerial responsbility to ensure that the school attracts >> students and >> performs its function.< >> >> The principal? why the love of one-person dictatorship?[***] it >> doesn't work well in corporations, so why should it work well with >> schools? And to whom is the principal responsible? do the people who >> actually do the work, deal with students on a day-to-day basis, etc. >> get no respect, so that they can thrown away like used Kleenex? don't >> the parents have some right to influence the principal's decisions?
I want an educational system where schools compete for parents (and their dollars). That will incentivize the school board / school organizers to hire good principals (and fire those not getting it done), who will be incentivized to hire good teachers (and fire those not getting it done). >> >> > An inevitable consequence of the government provided unionized school >> > system. >> Compare to private schools/catholic schools.< >> >> This is a big question. I'd like to see David's evidence for private >> and Catholic schools being better than the public ones. (I'm hoping >> that it's not just dogma, a fundamental faith that government can do >> no right.) By the way, not all government-provided are unionized, >> while some charter (i.e., privatized) schools have unions. I was responding to the statement that public school teachers are obstructed by bureacracy, I hope there is no controversy that public shools are weighed down by an admininistrative/bureacratic stucture not suffered by private/catholic schools. >> >> The evidence I've seen indicates that a major reason why private >> schools have such a good reputation is that they cream-skim >> (cherry-pick), attracting what they see as the best students and >> dumping the others (including those with special needs) on the >> underfunded public system. The charter schools aren't supposed to do >> that, but I'm convinced that they do. >> >> By the way, the reputation of charter schools seems much exaggerated: >> there are lots of bad ones, just there are a lot of bad private >> schools. It's not the charter schools that are clearly better than the >> standard public schools. Rather, it's the _magnet_ schools, which are >> "government provided." Certainly in LA, I agree with you on charter vs. magnet, but that is precisely because magnet schools must make themselves attractive, since they are not the local schools. No one is going to complain because an inner-city school doesn't compare to Harvard-Westlake. That's a total red herring. I agree that student self-selection is the number one determinant of school success. What the LA Times articles demonstrated is that there is teacher variation within schools, which blows out of the water any argument that an individual teacher is at the mercy of the school demographic. That is the bottom line point upon which the union is fighting a losing battle. My kids go to an LAUSD school (a very good magnet) and they, and all of their friends, know who the crappy teachers are. The parents knows as well. I am sure the principal knows as well. I am sure the other teachers know as well. Therefore, an inordinate of time is spent rearranging schedules to avoid those teachers. My 9th grader is worried that he will have to miss summer camp next year because all of his friends will be taking chemistry over the summer to avoid having to take it with a crappy teacher during the school year. The only reason that teacher is still teaching is inertia and the union contract, and I don't see the societal interest in that. David Shemano _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
