On 9/17/2011 10:17 AM, Jim Devine wrote:

Mike Ballard wrote: To imply that there was no post-wage labour vision 
embedded in the writings of Marx and Engels is probably one of the main 
stumbling blocks to revolutionary praxis today and for the continuance 
of radical liberalism posing as socialism.  Writing receipts for the 
Sardis of the future is another matter entirely.<

Marx saw capitalism's abolition as an inherent tendency, not only 
because of its crises and the like but because of its creation of the 
proletariat. But, as noted, he didn't tell the workers what they should 
replace capitalism with (the "receipts").  That's because he believed in 
the collective self-liberation of the working class. It's up to the 
workers to collectively decide what they want.

Even though Marx and Engels rejected utopian socialism, according to 
Draper they saw reading and discussing utopian literature as part of the 
collective self-education of the working class.

I agree with this.

Let's divide the topic. On the one hand there is the problem of the 
final goal of revolutionary thought and action. As Rosa Luxemburg noted, 
that cannot be some vague concept of socialism (and only vague concepts 
of it are possible), but a final goal is needed to make sense, to make 
intelligible  the ongoing struggles -- which in themselves are never 
revolutionary. (I would also agree with Tom that the most important of 
those struggles probably is for a shorter working day.)  Luxemburg 
argued that the final goal was state power, a concept which unlike some 
pseudo-precise socialism does not require empirical prophecy. But she 
presupposed a single hegemonic Party, and thought (wrongly) that she had 
one. Now one of the "lessons' of the '60s is or ought tobe that such a 
Party is in fact a utopian fantasy. But there is an equivalent to 
Luxemburg's "state power" - or another way of _expressing_ the concept 
of state power that does not have ahegemonic party as its precondition: 
A Call for a Constituent Assembly. Moreover, it is quite possible to 
have "practice" Constituent Assemblies. That is, at a high point of 
struggle any of the parties or organizations involved  can simply call 
for one, it can be held, and it can send the delegates back home with 
renewed energy for the struggle ahead. (The Panthers called for one in 
1970 andit was held; but at that time we were on the verge of the ebbing 
of the struggle, so it formed a sort of Memorial of what might have been.)

On the othr hand, though it is worng for Parties or other political 
groupings to put forth a blue print for socialism, simply as a matter of 
observed fact, within such movements endless discussions of utopia will 
of course occur. That is neither undesirable nor for tha matter 
forbiddable. But as Marx, Jim, & I argue, it is really undemocratic, 
even authoritarian in tendency to try to write a revolutionary program 
with instructins on what socialism is. Socialism is and must remain a 
pig in the poke. (Luxemburg also recognized, of course, that History 
knew no favorites, that "Progress" was not inscribed in the structure of 
human history, and that Barbarism might very well be our future. (Mao 
noted that Marxists have no crystal ball.) Sure, talk about socialism 
endlessly, but do not try to make  specifics of it part of a formal 
revolutionary program.

And Mike of course is seriously wrong when he thinks revolution comes 
merely from propagandizing its necessity. Revolution emerges, always 
unexpectedly, out of other struggles.

Carrol

This email was cleaned by emailStripper, available for free from 
http://www.papercut.biz/emailStripper.htm
_______________________________________________
pen-l mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l

Reply via email to