If you're going to post articles you should explain their
significance. I thought you always posted articles you agree with.

^^^^^^
CB: I'm not looking to u to supervise my posting   (giggles)

^^^^

In any event, I don't see how the TP will change its mind about its
basic politics, even if they give up on Reagan.

^^^^^^
CB: There r hardcore Tea Partiers and there are soft"? people
influenced by its rhetoric who can be dissuaded of its ideology. There
are young people just coming to maturity who can be convinced that
contrary to the main narrative, Reagan was actually "bad" ,not "good".
The battle of ideas goes on , and articles like this can help to
reverse the brainwashing of the last 30 years.

^^^^^"

They've got lots of
other heroes. And they get lots of money from the Koch brothers and a
whole passel of other right-wing millionaires. There have been a lot
of reactionary petty-bourgeois movement in the past that didn't have
Reagan as an icon, so the TP can survive without him. (In addition, of
course, they don't give a damn about facts.)

^^^^^^
CB: No, I think without Reagan the TP is done. Their central
themes:anti-unions, anti-government, anti-welfare , anti-Tax
-and-Spend Liberals as code language for , Negro-loving white
politicians, cutting taxes on the rich as a gambit to budget hawkism
to cut New Deal and War on Poverty/Great Society programs, fetishizing
public ignorance and stupidity in leaders,

> Actually, Marx's direct statement was that Big Men could slow or speed
> the pace of the rev, but not make it or thwart it completely. That'
> exactly what Big Man Reagan did. He slowed movement toward socialism
> by initiating counter-reforms and especially a counter-reform
> ideology. ?...

_What_ "movement toward socialism" did the US have in 1979? is there
some inexorable trend toward socialism that was hidden from sight at
the time, one that involved no actual organization or ideology or
popular action?

^^^^^^^
CB: I'd say the reason socialists support and defend the New Deal,
civil and human rights and War on Poverty/Great Society reforms is
that they move in the direction of socialism; and strengthen the
working class. That's why I support and defend them. Why do you
support and defend them ?


^^^^^^


You can't have a "movement toward socialism" without
some sort of popular movement. .

^^^^^
CB: The New Deal , Great Society/War on Poverty and Civil Rights
reforms were won because of mass popular movements in the 30's and
60's. Change came from the bottom up, not the top down.

^^^^^^

I'd say that the resistible rise of RR was not only a matter of the
strength of the "right" (as they started to unify around a neoliberal
program) but also the weakness of the "left." Most of the popular
movements of the 1960s (not to mention the popular movement of the
1930s & 40s, i.e., the labor movement) had peaked and were in sever
decline by 1979.

^^^^^^
CB: Yes, There definitely was a counter-reform movement; it succeeded
because, as you say , the left movements were in decline.  Now we seem
to have in the Immigrants' Rights mass demonstrations of several years
ago, the Wisconsin/Ohio/Michigan ( notice Wisconsin Gov. Walker's
specific conscious Reaganism and Reagan as his hero in the hoax phone
call from a "Koch brother" ; the right is consciously and explicitly
Reagnite)and other fightbacks against the Tea Party Reaganites and the
Occupation a growing new movement of the working class which has
potential to start to reverse the Reagan counter-reforms.  The article
I posted seems to be a new level of expression of anti-Reaganism.

^^^^

me:
> BTW, it's unfair to blame Reagan for the 11% unemployment in 1982-3.
> If you want to blame anyone, it would be Paul Volcker, who the DP
> president Jimmy Carter named to be head of the Federal Reserve. RR's
> tax cuts for the rich actually counteracted Volcker's tight monetary
> policy when it came to the unemployment issue.

CB;
> Yea, the DP haters have mentioned that about twenty times over
> the years here and on related lists.

That's hardly a reason to let Carter and the DP off the hook while
distorting history in the process.

^^^^^
CB: The fact is Carter didn't play nearly as big a role as Reagan in
getting uhhhh Reaganism so widely accepted.  The constant trying to
claim that is just off. The effort to make the DP as important as the
RP in establishing Reaganism is off, ultra-left error , as I've said
many times before. The Tea Party or the Gingrich rightwing surge in
1994 consciously and clearly were continuing Reagan's thrust not
Carter's. They were anti-Carter.

^^^^

BTW, I'm not a DP hater. I just think that it's a tremendous waste of
time to put any faith in the DP or to "bore from within" to try to
improve it. If you want to improve the DP _ignore it_ and fight for
your own political goals, which will often be in conflict those of DP
leaders. If you're successful to some degree -- as, for example, the
OWS movement has been -- the DP will shift in your direction. If you
give in and start catering to them, they'll absorb you. If you keep on
fighting for your goals and sticking to your principles (without the
sectarian garbage of various "Marxist-Leninist" grouplets), you're
more likely to change the DP than if you work for their candidates,
etc.

^^^^^^
CB: I'd say the history of the New Deal , Great Society/War on Poverty
and Civil Rights reforms indicates that the approach you describe is
not the best. Those historical examples indicate that it is possible
for movements of the 99% to achieve significant, socialist direction
reforms through the DP.  When it is not election time, protests and
demonstrations. When it is election time, work for the candidates. No
problem with doing both. It is especially possible with the Occupation
which has revolutionized the protest form by demonstrating against the
capitalists directly. Of course, for example , the autoworkers
occupied a private company's plant in 1936. Key was that the
Democratic Governor of Michigan did not send in national guard to
clear the plant.  Similarly, the Democratic President LBJ responded to
the dozens of urban rebellions with a Kerner Commission report
admitting white supremacy as a problem and with War on Poverty/Great
Society programs.

me:
> Whether the Gypper was "horrible" or not depends on your perspective.
> If you want there to be a neoliberal consensus among the ruling forces
> in US and world society, RR was great. He cemented the coalition that
> transformed US and world society, so that DP icons such as Bill
> Clinton and Barack Obama went along with neoliberalism (and have
> deepened it).

CB:
> Well yeah. If one is a rightwinger, Reagan is great. ?...

is that why Obama has praised Reagan?

^^^^
CB: I'd say Obama is a centrist who knows that with the Reagan
personality cult slopped over even to some centrists you can't get
elected without praising him. You can't be an anti-Reaganite until we
get about ten thousand more expressions from the 99% like the one that
is the heading for this thread.

^^^^

CB:
> Reaganism a better term than
> neo-liberal, because Liberalism is associated with what he helped
> bring down. Such code words as "tax and spend Liberals" code for
> Negro-loving white politicians are central to the Reaganite ideology.
> Anyway, because of the association in mass political discourse of
> "Liberal" with FDR and LBJ, it is confusing to call Reagan an
> initiator of neo-liberalism because Liberalism in the American sense
> is. what he started the attack on. ?...

Jim D: CB, you have a point there: neoliberalism is a term that only leftists
and academics use.

^^^^^^
CB: Yes a main problem is that it is not a popular term.  The vast
majority of the 99% can cognize the personality of Reagan and then
attach it to the demagogic anti-Big Government line ( Reagan expanded
the government, especially military)., anti-tax and spend Liberals,
anti-union. Part of the problem is that the average American thinks
better in terms of personalities than abstract concepts. So, we have
to go to where people are in their thinking and wage the battle. I
don't think the whole struggle against Reaganism or even the main part
is criticizing Reagan. But it is a way to get into people's thinking.
We want a historical revisionist movement (but we won't call it that
in mass rhetoric ; giggles). "Reaganism" is a rhetorical device.


The problem with "Reaganism" is that the term totally ignores the
power of big money and the kind of policies they've been pushing since
even before Reagan. The "politics of the 1 percent" might be a better
term. In any event, leftists should always make the point that the
problem is _more than Reagan or Reaganism_. Focusing on one individual
-- or catering to those who focus on one individual -- is silly.

^^^^^
CB: The beginning of Reaganism was before Reagan , but it was very
small compared to what Reagan got going. Reagan's main, s contribution
was swaying mass ideology and sentiment ,not as much the specific
programs he got going. Reaganism is importantly at the state level,
too. Michigan didn't get Reaganism until 1990 with Engler who slashed
welfare and attacked Detroit's

The Tea Party in Michigan is going very far, further than Reagan and
Engler, but they are their logical extension of the initial thrust of
Reagan and of course his ideas. It's pretty scary here in Michigan
right now. Tea Party is vicious.

^^^^^^

[I'm still in shock. Rahm Emmanuel went to my high school.]

^^^^^^^
CB: Chicago, Chicago, its a wonderful town
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