Jim Devine wrote:

As economists and political economists
generally use the term "efficiency,"
it's not the same as historical viability.

I had written:

if we contrast markets (not necessarily
capitalism) to communism in general and
in the abstract, as the tragedy of the
commons argument does, then the question
of which social structure is more
efficient, becomes a question of
historical viability.

You replied:

I agree with much of what Julio says below,
but I think he should avoid the word
"efficiency," which is usually seen as a
normative goal. Perhaps "productivity" is
a better word.

You objected to other paragraphs, not to this one in particular.  So I
thought you were okay with it.  Obviously, I don't say that efficiency
is always in in every instance equivalent to historical viability.
Efficiency is used in diverse contexts, micro, etc.  Historical
viability is a term usually reserved to the robustness of social
structures, modes of production, and the like.

if a mode of production -- such as the one
that used to prevail in the old Soviet Union
-- cannot get the job done of producing and
distributing goods and services with a
reasonable degree of efficiency compared to
other existing modes of production, it's
bound to fail eventually if it doesn't solve
the problem.

And also defend itself against its enemies.  If there's a prototype of
the successful defense of a social revolution, I'd think of Cuba.
Here I recommend Ramonet's biography of Fidel Castro (a series of
extremely interesting long interviews).

If I had my druthers, the notion of
"historical viability" would be
linked with the ability of a mode of
production to produce a surplus beyond
labor costs rather than with the ability
of a mode of production to simply
produce (as measured by labor productivity).

I don't understand what you mean.  Productivity is not level of
output.  Productivity is a ratio: output per unit of resource
(ultimately, per unit of labor time).

individuals don't choose modes of production
as individuals. Instead, their "preferences"
are aggregated, often in a way that doesn't
make any sense, so that it's the entire
society that makes the "decision," with some
being more important than others.

In capitalist societies, there's usually a smallish quota of
consumption "preferences" entering directly as inputs in a political
process of allocation.  The rest remain as individual preferences and
it is the choices instead (quantities purchased/sold) that are
aggregated via markets.

Under communism, I'd expect the bulk of consumption "preferences" to
be aggregated directly, presumably through some process of direct
democracy, at different levels.

one problem with our "conscious political and
legal choices" is that our consciousness
reflects our biographies within a specific
social system and its actual historical
process during the period of our lives. Thus,
what we "choose" reflects what's existed in
the past -- perhaps in contradictory ways.

A conscious choice doesn't mean an unconstrained choice.  Human
choices are never made in a vacuum.  The productive force of labor is
not infinite.  To paraphrase Hegel,  Freedom is only the consciousness
of necessity, not the absence of necessity.  It is often true that,
"Everyone takes the limits of his own vision for the limits of the
world"  (Schopenhauer).  That's why (note to Carrol Cox) political
pessimism can become a reactionary material force -- if it grips the
masses.  And what grips the masses usually starts by gripping
individuals.

I don't think it's legitimate to talk about
"a representative agent." Even general
equilibrium theory  agrees with me on this.
It's called the fallacy of composition.

Please explain.

The fact that P and K-H efficiency requires
two or more agents is not a criticism, since
last time I looked, there _were_ two or more
agents.

Of course not.  What I tried to say is that Pareto and Kaldor-Hicks
efficiency are applications of the general concept of economic
efficiency.

One thing I object to among orthodox economists
is the tendency to think totally in terms of
deductive logic, trying to minimize the number
of assumptions and the number of deviations from
the simplest and most idealized models. Instead
of using an abstract model as the baseline for
understanding the world, we should start with
perceived empirical reality as our baseline.
Marx's stuff in the introduction to the
GRUNDRISSE is good here.

This is a misunderstanding of the role of deductive logic in today's
economics.  There's already much in the PEN-L archives covering this
very point.

This thread may already be past its point of negative returns.  So, if
nothing new pops, this will be my last post.  Thanks, Jim.  Forgive my
telegraphic style, which (I know) can be pretty irksome.  (I have to
type under the relentless pressure of a 27-month old.)

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