On Nov 4, 2013 1:18 PM, "Stephen Kent" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Dean, >> >> >> ... >> >> >> But whether their opinions are honest or intentions malicious, they're just wrong. >> > So your bottom line is that anyone who disagrees with your perception of what tradeoffs > may be appropriate for security & privacy vs. performance, user convenience, etc. is > "just wrong." > > Nice to know it's that simple. >
As I said, the tradeoffs are reasonably debatable. That's a two-edged sword. Keeping the debate going, rather than delivering real incremental progress, is the technique by which progress can most easily be delayed. And I believe that the currently deployed "tradeoff settings" have been definitively proven to be out of balance. We have a reality where vast amounts of information are undeniably being inappropriately obtained by intermediaries. It appears that we have a consensus on this list and in the IETF as a whole about this imbalance. I don't trust you. I don't even trust me all that much; I know I've made mistakes that weakened protocol security. But I hope we can make substantial improvements despite that. Perhaps you don't intend it this way, but it seems to me that much of your input (as well as a few others) on this list is of the denigrating, futility inducing sort of manipulation that has produced the current state of disarray. I'm not suggesting that you change anything. But I would like other readers to consider the tone of discussions here, and ask themselves what is really being said and why. Unlike denial of service attacks on networks, DoS attacks on motivation (deliberate, or merely driven by accumulated frustration from grappling for many years with an intractable problem) are rendered much less effective when recognized for what they are. Right now we need all the motivation we can get. Ted's personal metric for evaluating success is a good motivator. Sophistric decomposition with attacks reducing it to the absurd is demotivational. I'll confess that questioning of motives might well be seen as demotivational as well. I can only respond that lancing a boil hurts, but may allow the wound to heal faster. -- Dean
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