Hey Mark, I find this hard to believe as chrome uses process isolation per site <https://www.chromium.org/Home/chromium-security/site-isolation> by default. I believe firefox does too <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Multiprocess_Firefox>. Whenever a website crashes only that tab crashes. It will prompt you to recover or kill that tab in isolation. I'm a web developer too and I sometimes let infinite recursion get through in my apps but I usually end up being able to kill the tab without affecting the rest of my work. Maybe the setting is turned off on your pc, you can check here, chrome://flags/#site-isolation-trial-opt-out
Regards, Avin On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 12:01 AM Mark Murawski <markm-li...@intellasoft.net> wrote: > Wow.. I go on vacation for a few days and I find this heated thread > going full speed ahead! > > Interesting history on why the removal of the 'native interface' occurred. > > I do a lot of web work and routinely wind up with locked up or crashed > browsers, so having pgadmin4 run in a browser tab is less than ideal.. > although sometimes I run firefox/chrome as another user to have some > memory/process separation so that not ALL of my browsers die when > chrome/firefox barfs up a big one. I suppose I could maintain yet > another user and make sure I start up pgadmin4 as that. > > Would there be a possibility of embedding chromium? Since of course > it's actively developed and everyone including their pet cat are using > it as a rendering engine these days (including microsoft) Not sure of > the compatibility with the BSD license would go... > > > > > On 7/28/19 2:54 PM, richard coleman wrote: > > Avin, > > > > Let me start by saying; > > grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes.png > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 3:43 AM Avin Kavish <avinkav...@gmail.com > > <mailto:avinkav...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > They weren't aimed directly at anyone in particular. They were > > suggestions for go-getters who like to take control of their own > > fate and instead of waiting for the randomness of the universe to > > deliver unto them what they seek. Maybe I should have put a warning > > saying "not for the faint hearted, requires effort and reading docs > > to accomplish" > > Your missive appeared directed at the fella who was complaining > > about the problems that pgAdmin4 relying on a browser was causing > > him, especially in regards to password management. I apologize if I > > misunderstood. > > > > so he would need to install nodejs, npm, nativefier, either open a > > command line/terminal every time he wants to start pgAdmin4 or write > > a batch/shell script to start it. He would also have to remember to > > start the pgAdmin /server/ separately and forget about using the > > "New pgAdmin window" function. To add insult to injury, he'd have > > to have separate scripts/commands if he should want a tray icon or > > to run it full screen. > > > > ^ With the way you word things, even standing up sounds hard. It's > > all perspective, it's accomplishable with a bit of effort. While it > > may not be possible to get nativefier to behave as described above, > > because it's an automated tool, you can script electron to do all of > > the above for you. > > That depends on the person, for some people /putting in half a dozen > > stitches /is accomplishable with a bit of effort (heck I've done it > > myself, painful but surely doable). I would still recommend someone > > who's sliced themselves open go to the emergency room, or at least > > see a doctor. But I guess it's all a matter of /perspective/ 😉. > > > > > > To add insult to injury, > > > > ^ There are no insults nor injuries mate, surely nothing physical. > > It leads me to believe that you are referring to emotional injury. > > Which then leads me to conclude that you are too emotional about > > this whole business of administering a database thing. Or maybe you > > are a fan of hyperbole, I don't know. Tone is up to interpretation > > in written communication. > > > > Actually that's called /a figure of speech /[ *no end users were harmed > > in the writing of the previous email*]. > > > > > > quite often actually. I have /lots/ of work to do that doesn't > > involve a web browser. > > > > ^ Sure, do that work and also keep the web browser open? How does a > > web browser window interrupt your work? How is it any different from > > having a dedicated window open? Do you run out of RAM or something? > > Do you accidentally start browsing memes when you have a browser > > open? What's the problem? Be explicit about what's wrong with the > > browser. > > > > In my case, I don't need it, and yes I *do* run out of RAM or > > something (Can I have just a /little more RAM sir? )😋./ > > > > > > pulling the tab out wouldn't do *anything* toward solving his > > problem, which revolved around password management > > > > ^ It wasn't meant to solve the password problem but needing a > > standalone window problem, which is also mentioned in the write up. > > In fact, this email wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. It is a > > general write up with a few suggestions for all the standalone > > window needs I've seen over the past few days. I haven't directly > > addressed anyone. I'm not sure you who you are referring to by > > "his". I'm just a developer sharing my knowledge in hopes that > > someone would benefit from it. > > > > I don't know, but I am pretty sure /most/ people these days (with the > > possible exception of my over 70 father) know how to either pull off a > > tab, or start another instance of their web browser. '/His/' was the > > person who wrote the initial email complaining about pgAdmin4 running in > > a browser and making a mess of his password management. > > > > > > Personally I have my own issues with the decision to write pgAdmin4 > > as a /web app/ running in it's own self contained web server. > > However I don't think that there is much of a desire among the > > /official/ dev team to change this > > > > ^ pgAdmin4 cannot be changed from a client-server architecture to > > anything else. It is too late. A re-write would be required, which > > is a breaking change. The only possibility is to affect the design > > decisions of pgAdmin5 or 6. If anyone makes a factual and formal > > presentation of why the existing client-server architecture should > > be replaced with something else rather than improving it, we could > > have a serious discussion. But I doubt it, I think everything can be > > improved within the current architecture. > > Yes, as a developer I realize the work it would take at this stage > > to create an actual client program as opposed to the embedded web > > server that it is now. Which is why I wrote that I don't see much > > of a desire among the official dev team to change things. If you, > > or any member of the dev team wants to have a serious discussion > > about the merits and limitations of the current architecture with a > > goal of possibly changing things, I'm all for it. Unfortunately it > > appears that the design and road map have already been determined by > > the current dev team. With the exception of reported bugs, or > > unforeseen issues, they don't appear to be open to any substantial > > changes. > > > > One thing I don't see in these emails is any credible facts and > > arguments against browsers, just a statement of personal unhappiness > > at the change of status quo. Maybe, if arguments based on facts that > > affect user experience, security or performance were provided, the > > team would do something about them, as they have been doing since > > the start. Instead, I see complaints. I don't see constructive > > feedback on possible improvements on this topic. I don't see > > solutions. I don't even see real problems. > > Hmmm.. where to begin. > > > > * not all browsers are supported (as evidenced by a bug report where I > > was told that Chromium isn't a /supported/ browser) > > * you have to run the UI as a separate program from the program itself > > * you have to worry about collisions between a /particular/ browser's > > short cuts and another's (Chrome is different from FireFox is > > different from Edge, etc.) > > * context (or right-click) menus aren't typical of a desktop program > > (no copy / paste option in the query window for example) > > * you are limited to a single /window /(tab) > > * you don't have true pop-ups/dialog boxes/notifications > > * if you detach a query editor panel, you can't reattach it (though > > that's hopefully just an unresolved bug) > > * your /session/ is now open to attacks from malicious plugins or > > random people across the internet (it's a /browser/ after all) > > * your user / password management is effected by your particular > > browser's cache or policy > > * you're limited to the sand boxed security restrictions of the > > particular browser you happen to be using (try loading a 10 GB file) > > * disruptions of the connection between the application and the UI, > > timeout's etc. occur (long running pgAdmin4 sessions can cause the > > UI to freeze under kubuntu). > > > > Not an exhaustive listing by any stretch, just what I could come > > up with off the top of my head. > > > > so, your final suggestion is that, /if/ he's a javascript developer > > he could simply /write his own program/ to fix a perceived pgAdmin4 > > shortcoming. > > > > ^ yeah absolutely, write your own programs without asking other > > people to do it for you for free of charge !!!!????? It's open > > source software. No one owes you anything. This is distributed > > without liability > > <https://electronjs.org/docs/api/browser-window>. The existence of > > postgresql and pgadmin itself are mere courtesies. > > > > > > 😂 No one said that they were *owed* anything. No one is claiming > > anyone is /liable/ for anything either. Saying that if you don't like > > it you should just write your own is rather short sighted. Unless the > > dev team is writing pgAdmin4 *only* for *themselves* then they should > > care about what the end users care about. Otherwise they may find that > > they are the only ones using it. 🤔 > > > > > > I did not mean write an entirely new admin app, I meant embed > > pgAdmin4 in Electron which literally takes 5 lines of code as a > > start <https://electronjs.org/docs/api/browser-window>. 1. Create a > > browser window. 2. Point it to pgAdmin4 URL. 3. Enjoy !!. If you > > know SQL, this is definitely do-able. And no it's not like the > > normal browser window. It will look like a normal app. Or you could > > increase the immersion by creating a frameless window but you may > > not be able to close it normally. > > https://electronjs.org/docs/api/frameless-window > > > > Here's a starting point. Follow this getting started > > <https://electronjs.org/docs/tutorial/first-app>first and replace > > the code in main.js > > > > |const { app, BrowserWindow } = require('electron') let win function > > createWindow () { win = new BrowserWindow({ width: 800, height: 600, > > webPreferences: { nodeIntegration: true } }) win.loadURL('| > http://127.0.0.1:45707/browser/') // <--- Fix the port number and point > this address to it. > > > > |win.on('closed', () => { win = null }) } app.on('ready', > > createWindow) app.on('window-all-closed', () => { if > > (process.platform !== 'darwin') { app.quit() } }) app.on('activate', > > () => { if (win === null) { createWindow() } })| > > > > That's all there is to it. Once you have that working, you can take > > it a step further by getting electron to launch the pgadmin4 server > > if it is not running already by using spawn > > < > https://nodejs.org/api/child_process.html#child_process_child_process_execsync_command_options > > > > > > It's nice that you included the above, but it's not terribly helpful > > to the /non/-programmer. I could write the Lorentz transformation > > equations to handle relative velocities in special relativity > > > > image.png > > > > but unless you're familiar with differential calculus and special > > relativity it's not very helpful. > > > > *Maybe an alternate launch option based on Electron should be an > > officially supported feature ?* > > > > Maybe. Though I think it would have to handle the above mentioned > > limitations, and be /built in/ for it to help *most* people. > > > > So there, no attacks, insults, or other /negativity. / Just one man's > > opinion. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 1:07 AM richard coleman > > <rcoleman.ascen...@gmail.com <mailto:rcoleman.ascen...@gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > Hi Avin, > > > > My $0.02 > > > > On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 2:11 PM Avin Kavish > > <avinkav...@gmail.com <mailto:avinkav...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Hey, > > > > Here's some unofficial input on the topic. > > > > This request baffles me for two reasons. > > > > a. Why does one need a standalone window when they can have > > pgAdmin open in a tab while multi-tasking. Is there ever a > > time when the web browser is closed while using a pc in > > 2019? If you lose tabs you can pin the tab and it will > > always be on the left side. > > > > quite often actually. I have /lots/ of work to do that doesn't > > involve a web browser. > > > > b. If you want it to run in it's own window, you can drag > > and pull the tab to it's own standalone window. > > > > pulling the tab out wouldn't do *anything* toward solving his > > problem, which revolved around password management > > > > If that doesn't solve your problem, > > > > You can try Nativefier but you might need to launch pgAdmin > > on the same port each time. It basically wraps any web site > > in an electron app. Electron fyi allows developing desktop > > apps using web technologies. It's based on chromium and > > nodejs and renders web apps just like google chrome would. > > https://github.com/jiahaog/nativefier > > > > so he would need to install nodejs, npm, nativefier, either > > open a command line/terminal every time he wants to start > > pgAdmin4 or write a batch/shell script to start it. He would > > also have to remember to start the pgAdmin /server/ separately > > and forget about using the "New pgAdmin window" function. To > > add insult to injury, he'd have to have > > separate scripts/commands if he should want a tray icon or to > > run it full screen. > > > > > > Or if you are a javascript developer you can write an > > electron app yourself to encapsulate and extend upon the > > current functionality. https://electronjs.org/ > > > > so, your final suggestion is that, /if/ he's a javascript > > developer he could simply /write his own program/ to fix a > > perceived pgAdmin4 shortcoming. > > > > Personally, I find it convenient to have it as a tab while > > reading docs and other stuff and often prefer it to > > switching to my IDE. > > > > I'm glad that you find the current set up convenient, > > unfortunately it seems like this is a problem for at least Mark > > and tutiluren. > > > > Once again, this is unofficial. I'm not part of the team. > > > > neither am I. > > > > Personally I have my own issues with the decision to write > > pgAdmin4 as a /web app/ running in it's own self contained web > > server. However I don't think that there is much of a desire > > among the /official/ dev team to change this. > > > > rik. > > > > Regards, > > Avin > > > > On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 10:51 PM Murtuza Zabuawala > > <murtuza.zabuaw...@enterprisedb.com > > <mailto:murtuza.zabuaw...@enterprisedb.com>> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I am afraid this is not possible at a moment, pgAdmin4 > > doesn't have its own UI rendering engine so it is > > dependent on the default web browser on the user's > system. > > > > -- Murtuza > > > > On Fri, 26 Jul 2019, 21:32 Mark Murawski, > > <markm-li...@intellasoft.net > > <mailto:markm-li...@intellasoft.net>> wrote: > > > > Hello! > > > > How can I go back to the traditional pgadmin4 > > interface where it runs in > > its own window. I do not want to launch it as a > > browser tab. > > > > > > > > >
