Also, I run Firefox with 4 windows, each one with hundreds of tabs (I have easily 500+ tabs in total), I don't restart Windows 10 for months and I don't have any issues here.
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 00:03 Avin Kavish <avinkav...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey Mark, > > I find this hard to believe as chrome uses process isolation per site > <https://www.chromium.org/Home/chromium-security/site-isolation> by > default. I believe firefox does too > <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Multiprocess_Firefox>. > Whenever a website crashes only that tab crashes. It will prompt you to > recover or kill that tab in isolation. I'm a web developer too and I > sometimes let infinite recursion get through in my apps but I usually end > up being able to kill the tab without affecting the rest of my work. Maybe > the setting is turned off on your pc, you can check here, > chrome://flags/#site-isolation-trial-opt-out > > Regards, > Avin > > On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 12:01 AM Mark Murawski < > markm-li...@intellasoft.net> wrote: > >> Wow.. I go on vacation for a few days and I find this heated thread >> going full speed ahead! >> >> Interesting history on why the removal of the 'native interface' occurred. >> >> I do a lot of web work and routinely wind up with locked up or crashed >> browsers, so having pgadmin4 run in a browser tab is less than ideal.. >> although sometimes I run firefox/chrome as another user to have some >> memory/process separation so that not ALL of my browsers die when >> chrome/firefox barfs up a big one. I suppose I could maintain yet >> another user and make sure I start up pgadmin4 as that. >> >> Would there be a possibility of embedding chromium? Since of course >> it's actively developed and everyone including their pet cat are using >> it as a rendering engine these days (including microsoft) Not sure of >> the compatibility with the BSD license would go... >> >> >> >> >> On 7/28/19 2:54 PM, richard coleman wrote: >> > Avin, >> > >> > Let me start by saying; >> > grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes.png >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 3:43 AM Avin Kavish <avinkav...@gmail.com >> > <mailto:avinkav...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > >> > They weren't aimed directly at anyone in particular. They were >> > suggestions for go-getters who like to take control of their own >> > fate and instead of waiting for the randomness of the universe to >> > deliver unto them what they seek. Maybe I should have put a warning >> > saying "not for the faint hearted, requires effort and reading docs >> > to accomplish" >> > Your missive appeared directed at the fella who was complaining >> > about the problems that pgAdmin4 relying on a browser was causing >> > him, especially in regards to password management. I apologize if I >> > misunderstood. >> > >> > so he would need to install nodejs, npm, nativefier, either open a >> > command line/terminal every time he wants to start pgAdmin4 or write >> > a batch/shell script to start it. He would also have to remember to >> > start the pgAdmin /server/ separately and forget about using the >> > "New pgAdmin window" function. To add insult to injury, he'd have >> > to have separate scripts/commands if he should want a tray icon or >> > to run it full screen. >> > >> > ^ With the way you word things, even standing up sounds hard. It's >> > all perspective, it's accomplishable with a bit of effort. While it >> > may not be possible to get nativefier to behave as described above, >> > because it's an automated tool, you can script electron to do all of >> > the above for you. >> > That depends on the person, for some people /putting in half a dozen >> > stitches /is accomplishable with a bit of effort (heck I've done it >> > myself, painful but surely doable). I would still recommend someone >> > who's sliced themselves open go to the emergency room, or at least >> > see a doctor. But I guess it's all a matter of /perspective/ 😉. >> > >> > >> > To add insult to injury, >> > >> > ^ There are no insults nor injuries mate, surely nothing physical. >> > It leads me to believe that you are referring to emotional injury. >> > Which then leads me to conclude that you are too emotional about >> > this whole business of administering a database thing. Or maybe you >> > are a fan of hyperbole, I don't know. Tone is up to interpretation >> > in written communication. >> > >> > Actually that's called /a figure of speech /[ *no end users were harmed >> > in the writing of the previous email*]. >> > >> > >> > quite often actually. I have /lots/ of work to do that doesn't >> > involve a web browser. >> > >> > ^ Sure, do that work and also keep the web browser open? How does a >> > web browser window interrupt your work? How is it any different from >> > having a dedicated window open? Do you run out of RAM or something? >> > Do you accidentally start browsing memes when you have a browser >> > open? What's the problem? Be explicit about what's wrong with the >> > browser. >> > >> > In my case, I don't need it, and yes I *do* run out of RAM or >> > something (Can I have just a /little more RAM sir? )😋./ >> > >> > >> > pulling the tab out wouldn't do *anything* toward solving his >> > problem, which revolved around password management >> > >> > ^ It wasn't meant to solve the password problem but needing a >> > standalone window problem, which is also mentioned in the write up. >> > In fact, this email wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. It is a >> > general write up with a few suggestions for all the standalone >> > window needs I've seen over the past few days. I haven't directly >> > addressed anyone. I'm not sure you who you are referring to by >> > "his". I'm just a developer sharing my knowledge in hopes that >> > someone would benefit from it. >> > >> > I don't know, but I am pretty sure /most/ people these days (with >> the >> > possible exception of my over 70 father) know how to either pull off a >> > tab, or start another instance of their web browser. '/His/' was the >> > person who wrote the initial email complaining about pgAdmin4 running >> in >> > a browser and making a mess of his password management. >> > >> > >> > Personally I have my own issues with the decision to write pgAdmin4 >> > as a /web app/ running in it's own self contained web server. >> > However I don't think that there is much of a desire among the >> > /official/ dev team to change this >> > >> > ^ pgAdmin4 cannot be changed from a client-server architecture to >> > anything else. It is too late. A re-write would be required, which >> > is a breaking change. The only possibility is to affect the design >> > decisions of pgAdmin5 or 6. If anyone makes a factual and formal >> > presentation of why the existing client-server architecture should >> > be replaced with something else rather than improving it, we could >> > have a serious discussion. But I doubt it, I think everything can be >> > improved within the current architecture. >> > Yes, as a developer I realize the work it would take at this stage >> > to create an actual client program as opposed to the embedded web >> > server that it is now. Which is why I wrote that I don't see much >> > of a desire among the official dev team to change things. If you, >> > or any member of the dev team wants to have a serious discussion >> > about the merits and limitations of the current architecture with a >> > goal of possibly changing things, I'm all for it. Unfortunately it >> > appears that the design and road map have already been determined by >> > the current dev team. With the exception of reported bugs, or >> > unforeseen issues, they don't appear to be open to any substantial >> > changes. >> > >> > One thing I don't see in these emails is any credible facts and >> > arguments against browsers, just a statement of personal unhappiness >> > at the change of status quo. Maybe, if arguments based on facts that >> > affect user experience, security or performance were provided, the >> > team would do something about them, as they have been doing since >> > the start. Instead, I see complaints. I don't see constructive >> > feedback on possible improvements on this topic. I don't see >> > solutions. I don't even see real problems. >> > Hmmm.. where to begin. >> > >> > * not all browsers are supported (as evidenced by a bug report where I >> > was told that Chromium isn't a /supported/ browser) >> > * you have to run the UI as a separate program from the program itself >> > * you have to worry about collisions between a /particular/ browser's >> > short cuts and another's (Chrome is different from FireFox is >> > different from Edge, etc.) >> > * context (or right-click) menus aren't typical of a desktop program >> > (no copy / paste option in the query window for example) >> > * you are limited to a single /window /(tab) >> > * you don't have true pop-ups/dialog boxes/notifications >> > * if you detach a query editor panel, you can't reattach it (though >> > that's hopefully just an unresolved bug) >> > * your /session/ is now open to attacks from malicious plugins or >> > random people across the internet (it's a /browser/ after all) >> > * your user / password management is effected by your particular >> > browser's cache or policy >> > * you're limited to the sand boxed security restrictions of the >> > particular browser you happen to be using (try loading a 10 GB file) >> > * disruptions of the connection between the application and the UI, >> > timeout's etc. occur (long running pgAdmin4 sessions can cause the >> > UI to freeze under kubuntu). >> > >> > Not an exhaustive listing by any stretch, just what I could come >> > up with off the top of my head. >> > >> > so, your final suggestion is that, /if/ he's a javascript developer >> > he could simply /write his own program/ to fix a perceived pgAdmin4 >> > shortcoming. >> > >> > ^ yeah absolutely, write your own programs without asking other >> > people to do it for you for free of charge !!!!????? It's open >> > source software. No one owes you anything. This is distributed >> > without liability >> > <https://electronjs.org/docs/api/browser-window>. The existence of >> > postgresql and pgadmin itself are mere courtesies. >> > >> > >> > 😂 No one said that they were *owed* anything. No one is claiming >> > anyone is /liable/ for anything either. Saying that if you don't like >> > it you should just write your own is rather short sighted. Unless the >> > dev team is writing pgAdmin4 *only* for *themselves* then they should >> > care about what the end users care about. Otherwise they may find that >> > they are the only ones using it. 🤔 >> > >> > >> > I did not mean write an entirely new admin app, I meant embed >> > pgAdmin4 in Electron which literally takes 5 lines of code as a >> > start <https://electronjs.org/docs/api/browser-window>. 1. Create >> a >> > browser window. 2. Point it to pgAdmin4 URL. 3. Enjoy !!. If you >> > know SQL, this is definitely do-able. And no it's not like the >> > normal browser window. It will look like a normal app. Or you could >> > increase the immersion by creating a frameless window but you may >> > not be able to close it normally. >> > https://electronjs.org/docs/api/frameless-window >> > >> > Here's a starting point. Follow this getting started >> > <https://electronjs.org/docs/tutorial/first-app>first and replace >> > the code in main.js >> > >> > |const { app, BrowserWindow } = require('electron') let win function >> > createWindow () { win = new BrowserWindow({ width: 800, height: 600, >> > webPreferences: { nodeIntegration: true } }) win.loadURL('| >> http://127.0.0.1:45707/browser/') // <--- Fix the port number and point >> this address to it. >> > >> > |win.on('closed', () => { win = null }) } app.on('ready', >> > createWindow) app.on('window-all-closed', () => { if >> > (process.platform !== 'darwin') { app.quit() } }) app.on('activate', >> > () => { if (win === null) { createWindow() } })| >> > >> > That's all there is to it. Once you have that working, you can take >> > it a step further by getting electron to launch the pgadmin4 server >> > if it is not running already by using spawn >> > < >> https://nodejs.org/api/child_process.html#child_process_child_process_execsync_command_options >> > >> > >> > It's nice that you included the above, but it's not terribly helpful >> > to the /non/-programmer. I could write the Lorentz transformation >> > equations to handle relative velocities in special relativity >> > >> > image.png >> > >> > but unless you're familiar with differential calculus and special >> > relativity it's not very helpful. >> > >> > *Maybe an alternate launch option based on Electron should be an >> > officially supported feature ?* >> > >> > Maybe. Though I think it would have to handle the above mentioned >> > limitations, and be /built in/ for it to help *most* people. >> > >> > So there, no attacks, insults, or other /negativity. / Just one man's >> > opinion. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 1:07 AM richard coleman >> > <rcoleman.ascen...@gmail.com <mailto:rcoleman.ascen...@gmail.com>> >> > wrote: >> > >> > Hi Avin, >> > >> > My $0.02 >> > >> > On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 2:11 PM Avin Kavish >> > <avinkav...@gmail.com <mailto:avinkav...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > >> > Hey, >> > >> > Here's some unofficial input on the topic. >> > >> > This request baffles me for two reasons. >> > >> > a. Why does one need a standalone window when they can have >> > pgAdmin open in a tab while multi-tasking. Is there ever a >> > time when the web browser is closed while using a pc in >> > 2019? If you lose tabs you can pin the tab and it will >> > always be on the left side. >> > >> > quite often actually. I have /lots/ of work to do that doesn't >> > involve a web browser. >> > >> > b. If you want it to run in it's own window, you can drag >> > and pull the tab to it's own standalone window. >> > >> > pulling the tab out wouldn't do *anything* toward solving his >> > problem, which revolved around password management >> > >> > If that doesn't solve your problem, >> > >> > You can try Nativefier but you might need to launch pgAdmin >> > on the same port each time. It basically wraps any web site >> > in an electron app. Electron fyi allows developing desktop >> > apps using web technologies. It's based on chromium and >> > nodejs and renders web apps just like google chrome would. >> > https://github.com/jiahaog/nativefier >> > >> > so he would need to install nodejs, npm, nativefier, either >> > open a command line/terminal every time he wants to start >> > pgAdmin4 or write a batch/shell script to start it. He would >> > also have to remember to start the pgAdmin /server/ separately >> > and forget about using the "New pgAdmin window" function. To >> > add insult to injury, he'd have to have >> > separate scripts/commands if he should want a tray icon or to >> > run it full screen. >> > >> > >> > Or if you are a javascript developer you can write an >> > electron app yourself to encapsulate and extend upon the >> > current functionality. https://electronjs.org/ >> > >> > so, your final suggestion is that, /if/ he's a javascript >> > developer he could simply /write his own program/ to fix a >> > perceived pgAdmin4 shortcoming. >> > >> > Personally, I find it convenient to have it as a tab while >> > reading docs and other stuff and often prefer it to >> > switching to my IDE. >> > >> > I'm glad that you find the current set up convenient, >> > unfortunately it seems like this is a problem for at least Mark >> > and tutiluren. >> > >> > Once again, this is unofficial. I'm not part of the team. >> > >> > neither am I. >> > >> > Personally I have my own issues with the decision to write >> > pgAdmin4 as a /web app/ running in it's own self contained web >> > server. However I don't think that there is much of a desire >> > among the /official/ dev team to change this. >> > >> > rik. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Avin >> > >> > On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 10:51 PM Murtuza Zabuawala >> > <murtuza.zabuaw...@enterprisedb.com >> > <mailto:murtuza.zabuaw...@enterprisedb.com>> wrote: >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > I am afraid this is not possible at a moment, pgAdmin4 >> > doesn't have its own UI rendering engine so it is >> > dependent on the default web browser on the user's >> system. >> > >> > -- Murtuza >> > >> > On Fri, 26 Jul 2019, 21:32 Mark Murawski, >> > <markm-li...@intellasoft.net >> > <mailto:markm-li...@intellasoft.net>> wrote: >> > >> > Hello! >> > >> > How can I go back to the traditional pgadmin4 >> > interface where it runs in >> > its own window. I do not want to launch it as a >> > browser tab. >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >>
