On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 12:32 PM, Joshua D. Drake <j...@commandprompt.com> 
> That argument suggests we shouldn't have autovacuum :P

It certainly does not.  That, too, would be removing a useful option.
In fact, it would be removing the most useful option that is the right
choice for most users in 99% of cases.

> As mentioned in an other reply, I am not suggesting we can't turn off
> autovacuum as a whole. Heck, I even suggested being able to turn it off per
> database (versus just per table). I am suggesting that we get rid of a foot
> gun for unsophisticated (and thus majority of our users).

It has to be possible to shut it off in postgresql.conf, before
starting the server.  Anything per-database wouldn't have that

>> I've run into these kinds of situations, but I know for a fact that
>> there are quite a few EnterpriseDB customers who test extremely
>> thoroughly, read the documentation in depth, and really understand the
>> system at a very deep level.
> Those aren't exactly the users we are talking about are we? I also run into
> those users all the time.

Well, we can't very well ship the autovacuum option only to the smart
customers and remove it for the dumb ones, can we?  The option either
exists or it doesn't.

> 1 != 10

I concede the truth of that statement, but not whatever it is you
intend to imply thereby.

> I find it interesting that we are willing to do that every time we add a
> feature but once we have that feature it is like pulling teeth to show the
> people that implemented those features that some people don't think it was
> better :P

Well, we don't allow much dumb stuff to get added in the first place,
so there isn't much to take out.

I'm not trying to argue that we're perfect here.  There are certainly
changes I'd like to make that other people oppose and, well, I think
they are wrong.  And I know I'm wrong about some things, too: I just
don't know which things, or I'd change my mind about just those.

> Seriously though. I am only speaking from experience from 20 years of
> customers. CMD also has customers just like yours but we also run into lots
> and lots of people that still do really silly things like we have already
> discussed.

I think it would be better to confine this thread to the specific
issue of whether removing the autovacuum GUC is a good idea rather
than turning it into a referendum on whether you are an experience
PostgreSQL professional.

Robert Haas
EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

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