great topic Time to upvote outside our niche?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7225808 On Feb 12, 2014, at 3:06 PM, [email protected] wrote: > hi kilon, > > Thanks for your words. I particularly like them since you've come recently > to Smalltalk after a number of other languages. > > There is some interesting discussion of this topic at [1] which indicate a > predominance of non-technical issues and technical issues that don't apply > today. > Paul Grahams "Blub Paradox" [2] explains why popular is not always best. > Finally, I'd like to get an update on this from this Gartner [3].. > > [1] http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WhyIsSmalltalkDead > [2] http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html (for the time constrained search > down the page for "Blub") > [3] http://blogs.gartner.com/mark_driver/2008/10/09/remember-smalltalk/ > > cheers -ben > > kilon alios wrote: >> >> frankly I find the community here, extremely friendly , well motivated, >> reasonable and humble. And I dont let a couple of incidents per year change >> my mind of what happens here on a daily basis. >> >> Smalltalk is unpopular because it never had a big company behind it or a >> good marketing strategy. 99% of people out there, had, have and will have no >> clue what smalltalk is all about. >> >> You want to talk about ObjC ? fine . Lets be honest , objc was like 42th >> most popular language in TIOBE and now is like 3rd. Why ? because iOS. Thats >> all, not because of quality of the language , not because it has super >> friendly community , not because users saw the light. >> >> The only thing that ObjC shares with smalltalk is message passing. Does >> that make ObjC part of the family , eh , no. Unless you are prepared to let >> tons other languages and IDEs join you, but then you still wont have a >> family but a nation. And ObjC is a seriously ugly language. Its still no C++ >> , Javascript , Perl or PHP, but its ugly. Smalltalk is gorgeous. >> >> Also dont put too much emphasis on popularity. Java library is super popular >> and many of its libraries are a big pile of mess. Its quantity vs quality. >> C++ is on the same boat. Popularity gives you mainly quantity. >> >> My advice is don't be humble, be proud of your work and what you have >> accomplished with Pharo and your individual project. And if sometimes things >> go south , remember its much better to be passionate than being dull. Its >> all part of being human. Keep an open mind, and keep walking , one step at a >> time. >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> On 12 Feb 2014, at 14:54, askoh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > The recent arguments in Smalltalk made me have an Eureka moment on why >> > Smalltalk is not popular. Smalltalk attracts brilliant people. But these >> > brilliant people scare others away. Instead of Showing How, they Show Off. >> > Instead of being inclusive, they are picky. Instead of discussing, they >> > fight. >> > >> > So, Smalltalkers, please be humble, friendly and pacific. Show How. Invite >> > anyone interested to join. And let's talk normally. >> >> I agree, of course. (With the second paragraph, less with the first: these >> discussion happen everywhere, ever read emails by Linus Torvalds ?) >> >> -- >> >> But I had an epiphany today, based on this discussion of what is the >> definition of Smalltalk. I hereby declare that we are the _third_ most >> popular language (family) in use today ! >> >> Based on this very reputable (ahem) index: >> >> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html >> >> I really think that in a broad definition of Smalltalk, Objective-C is part >> of the family. >> >> According to the first line of >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective-C >> >> Objective-C is a general-purpose, object-oriented programming language that >> adds Smalltalk-style messaging to the C programming language. >> >> And messaging is at the core of Smalltalk. It also has a similar class based >> object model, is late bound in almost everything and has some reflective >> capabilities. There are even a couple of projects mixing the two explicitly. >> >> Reserve a bigger venue for the next ESUG ! >> >> Sven >> >> PS: We've had these discussions before on various occasions: it is really >> hard to come up with a definition of what is Smalltalk, or even a good list >> of what is so special about it - there really is a elusive, hard to define >> aspect to it. >> >> > All the best, >> > Aik-Siong Koh >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > View this message in context: >> > http://forum.world.st/Why-Smalltalk-is-not-popular-tp4743009.html >> > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >> > Nabble.com. >> > >> >> >> >
