On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 4:13 AM, kilon alios <[email protected]> wrote:
> Its not about having issues or not having issues, its about how much > performance you consume for the GUI alone. > > I have installed both CPU performance monitor for 2.0GHZ Core2Duo iMac and > my new i5 3.2 Ghz iMac. Moving a system browser window in the old iMac > spikes the CPUs to 50-70% while moving the window in the new iMac is down > to 20%. Of course the old imac is 7 years old the new one is 5 months old. > > The question here is "does it really worth doing something about it ?" . > It is true that I can write all the words I want to say with a dull pencil but I prefer a nice sharp one :). How the interface feels is important. > Sure if you a creating the new CryEngine in Pharo it would be a major > problem or any 3d game app that taxes even modern CPUs. But for non > demanding usage even if pharo community does absolutely nothing this 20% > will shrink down to 10% then 5% , 2.5% and eventually 1%. This has been > also a major argument point for cpython. People used to complain A LOT > about cpython's performance in old cpus, cause lets face it in some > scenarios and many scenarios it was a BIG problem BUT nowday those voices > are getting more and more quieter because CPUs have become insanely fast > and there is no indication this will stop now. > Today's machines are thousands of times faster than the ones Smalltalk originally ran on. How much faster is its UI now? I don't think Moore's Law is going to fix the problem. So on the subject of whether we need GPU accelerated GUI at large as a > community I would say "Definetly Not" ,Morphic is messy enough as it is, > lets not make it more complex..... please ! > I agree. It should become less complex. Complexity makes it hard to improve performance. I am not saying that GPU acceleration does not have its merits, I am using > Blender for 3d modeling and its new render engine Cycles makes uses of CUDA > and its SWEET , I can almost have real time rendering, not final quality , > but still good enough to see how it would look in the final render. Real > time rendering to a 3d artist is like live coding to a coder. Its like > Christmas vacation in Santa Claus Toy Factory. > Sounds awesome. But on the other hand none stops anyone from implementing a third party > library that runs pharo headless and then uses the OS to open a new window > completely bypassing morphic and taking advantage of GPU. I don't think we > need to make Morphic more complex than it already is. Pharo should be first > about simplicity and then performance. But then if you can improve > performance of Morphic and yet keep it simple enough please be my guest. > Fast new windows for 3D would be great and I want my development environment to be fluid, responsive, and powerful too. Today it feels sluggish and weighs on me. > On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 1:47 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Hilaire Fernandes < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> We could try to organize a task force on that matter. I will try to >>> submit some proposals later, but now I want to prepare a delicious cake. >>> >> >> Ha, cool. I am cleaning the home :-) >> >> Jokes aside, it is true that the Pharo UI is quite slow. >> I do not have issues on my Core i7 PC but on my Core2Duo Mac it shows... >> >> There are enough benefits to having a software UI (flexibility etc) to >> suffer that. >> >> But there is for sure room for improvement. >> >> As resolutions go higher, this problem will only get worse. >> >> Where would one have to start looking for performance improvements? >> >> Phil >> >> >>> Hilaire >>> >>> Le 31/05/2014 10:48, Clément Bera a écrit : >>> > The second thing is that BitBlt is slow for 2 reasons: it is bit based >>> > and not vector based and its implementation half in the VM half in the >>> > image forces to copy a huge number of bits that could be avoided >>> > >>> > So the answer is that you need to contribute to the refactoring of >>> > Morphic or to Athens. >>> > >>> > GUI hardware acceleration is clearly not the problem yet. >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu >>> >>> >>> >> >
