nah, it depends on the size of the method too :)
I much prefer 5 methods of 5 lines each than one of 25. 

Esteban 

On 01 Sep 2014, at 11:58, [email protected] wrote:

> Doru,
> 
> Some smart snippets welcome :-)
> 
> Can use that for a demo!
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote:
> For a small prototype GUI, anything longer than one method is too long.
> 
> Doru
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 2014-09-01 10:20 GMT+02:00 kilon alios <[email protected]>:
> 
> Personally there are two thing I dont like about Spec
> 
> a) There is quite a lot of setup just to start adding things together making 
> quite verbose for small GUIs. It may be just my lack of understanding but I 
> find Morphic much easier to use. 
> 
> Can you give me an example of this setup for a small GUI?  The examples I 
> have seen so far only use some lines of code in #defaultSpec and some lines 
> of code
> for wiring up the different models (like onSelectedDo, onChangedDo, ...) All 
> of that are things you would do anyway.
> 
> nicolai
> 
>  
> 
> b) I have a deep dislike about the use of pragmas. I know they are useful for 
> primitives that cant be pure smalltalk objects like for example Nativeboost 
> but I still feel they brake the uniformity of smalltalk syntax at least in my 
> eyes.
> 
> On the other hand having something that can quickly produce guis is 
> essential. But personal I prefer lego-like approaches which is what Morphic 
> uses. As side note I think designing GUI via code is a bad idea, at least in 
> my eyes, we need a designer for that, afterall most of the powerful IDEs out 
> there have GUI designers. Nonetheless wishful thinking is not productive , 
> Spec is here, it is certainly helpful and I hope it continues to evolve and 
> improve.  
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 10:32 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> When one looks at the implementers of "defaultSpec" (lots of Adapters, 
> tools), I find it more understandable to figure out how a tool is laid out.
> 
> How to follow what messages are sent around, err... much less understandable 
> indeed (So, sharing Sean's pain).
> 
> Of course, this is different from inspecting morphs. But it shouldn't be so. 
> If Morphs where isofunctional with the Adapters, it would be much more 
> regular.
> 
> It is glaring that the Morphs all have their own little view of the world 
> with no unified set of protocols, which isn't helping.
> 
> An example: MorphicRadioButtonAdapter
> 
> defaultSpec
>       <spec>
>       ^ {#CheckboxMorph.
>               #on:selected:changeSelected:.   #model. #state. #state:.
>                       #label:.                                                
>                 {       #model. #label          }.
>                       #labelClickable:.                                       
> {       #model. #labelClickable}.
>                       #beRadioButton.
>                       #hResizing:.                                            
> #shrinkWrap.
>                       #vResizing:.                                            
> #shrinkWrap.
>                       #setBalloonText:.                                       
> #(model help).
>                       #dragEnabled:.                                          
> #(model dragEnabled).
>                       #dropEnabled:.                                          
> #(model dropEnabled).   
>                       #dragEnabled:.                                          
> #(model dragEnabled).
>                       #dropEnabled:.                                          
> #(model dropEnabled).                                   
>                       "#borderWidth:.                                         
> #(model borderWidth).
>                       #borderColor:.                                          
> #(model borderColor)"}
> 
> A halo that would outline the SpecLayout bits and pieces would go a long way 
> in helping people figure out what's going on. A project in itself.
> 
> Now, can we both have a declarative UI and an easy to debug UI? As the 
> declarative things has its own interpreter and engine?
> 
> Phil
>  
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote:
> +1 to both of you :)
> 
> Doru
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 9:18 AM, stepharo <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi sean
> 
> 
> I've been mulling this over for a while, and since we've been having
> conversations about Spec's place in our future...
> :)
> Good. This is important that everybody express itself.
> 
> 
> DISCLAIMER: this is a visceral experience I've been having over a long
> period of time, so it may not be factually "true" or current, but I present
> it as a contribution, if only by someone saying "you're full of crap
> because..." and we all learn something.
> 
> The purpose of Spec as I understand it is to both come up with a nice
> streamlined UI API, and to make multiple targets (e.g. Morphic, html)
> possible with the same codebase. These are both important goals. And it
> seems we've made some progress at least in the first case. I definitely
> enjoy working with Spec's API far more that e.g. PolyMorph.
> 
> Spec could be a very valuable application-level tool. If I want to write a
> business application, I can write once via a nice API and deploy "anywhere".
> Life is good.
> 
> My discomfort is with making *all* our core tools Spec-based.
> 
> I agree this is why I started to write some little tool to be able to browse 
> the system
> when Spec is shaking.
> 
> Now when you see the code of the old browser this is not nice either.
> So we will see and learn. But I can tell you that nothing is curved in stone.
> We will introduce GT but again you will get the same because GT is a 
> frameworks.
> 
> 
> While it is great from an "eating our own dog food perspective", one of the 
> great
> principles of Morphic is exploration and discoverability. Many times before
> Spec I was able to poke around a tool, figure out how it worked, and apply
> that lesson to my own UI. However, with Spec I find it extremely difficult
> to figure out WTH is going on. Parsing of arrays of symbols seems to have
> replaced Smalltalk code, and each field/model piece of a Spec UI seems to be
> buried behind multiple ValueHolder/Adapter/whatever levels. Granted, now
> that we have e.g. specialized inspectors, we might be able to alleviate
> this.
> 
> We should iterate on it.
> May be another framework will be better in the future
> 
> 
> My 2c.
> 
> 
> 
> -----
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://forum.world.st/When-all-you-have-is-Spec-everything-looks-like-a-nail-tp4775537.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> www.tudorgirba.com
> 
> "Every thing has its own flow"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> www.tudorgirba.com
> 
> "Every thing has its own flow"
> 

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