OK, that's concrete, thank you.

So, we need to extend/fix the fact that the Raw tab does not show variable 
parts - I totally agree BTW.

But that is not a problem of GT itself, just of one of its presentations, 
should be fairly easy to fix. 

> On 23 Dec 2014, at 20:09, Clément Bera <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 2014-12-23 19:37 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]>:
> 
> > On 23 Dec 2014, at 19:13, Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > What does a basic inspector mean for you? It's not a rhetorical question. I 
> > am actually interested in what you miss.
> 
> What took you so long, Doru ? Haha ;-)
> 
> Seriously, I think that the 'Raw' tab of GT-Inspector actually covers the key 
> old inspector *and* inspector behaviour quite well. I guess that was/is also 
> the design goal.
> 
> No it covers only part of it. See below.
> 
> The rest is mostly a reaction to something new and unfamiliar. GT takes some 
> getting used  to.
> 
> But we need concrete use cases that give people trouble to be able to improve.
> 
> My use case is simple, I have variable objects such as Context or 
> BlockClosure, and when I inspect them I cannot see their variable fields with 
> GTInspector. The old basicInspector allows me to see these fields. 
> 
> Example:
> 
> | t |
> t := 1.
> [ t ] inspect
> 
> GT visualisation:
> 
> <GT.png>
> 
> Old visualisation:
> 
> <old.png>
> 
>  In the old visualisation I could see the 1 with its value.
> 
> Same problem with contexts. In the old basicInspector I could see all the 
> stack fields, I can't see them anymore.
> 
> Example:
> 
> <GT2.png>
> 
> <old2.png>
> 
> Therefore I need the old inspector to inspect Context and BlockClosure. I 
> talk about Context and BlockClosure because they are the most annoying in my 
> workflows, but the problem is more generic. GTInspector does not 
> automatically detect the object's layout, on the contrary to the old 
> inspector. Therefore when I do:
> 
> Object variableSubclass: #MyVariableObject
>       instanceVariableNames: ''
>       classVariableNames: ''
>       category: 'Banana'
> 
> (MyVariableObject new: 3) inspect
> 
> => I can't see any of the fields.
> 
> Same issue with variableByteSubclass and co. And Context and BlockClosure 
> falls into this category of objects (they're variableSubclasses).
> 
> To me a basicInspector is an inspector that allows you to see the ALL the 
> internal state of an object without hiding or changing the names of fields, 
> and I do not have that (right now) with GTInspector on the contrary to the 
> old inspectors.
> 
> Note: don't mistake me, I use GTInspector for most of my daily work, I like 
> it and it improved my productivity. There are just a few cases that do not 
> work where I need to switch to the old inspector, mostly the ones I've just 
> described.
> 
> In addition, a visualization of tempName -> tempValue for inspectors on 
> context is missing but that's a detail.
> 
> > Doru
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, Clément Bera <[email protected]> 
> > wrote:
> > Yes.
> >
> > World Menu >> Settings >> Glamourous toolkit
> >
> > then you can uncheck GTInspector and GTPlayground.
> >
> > I also need to do that very often as GTInspector does not have a basic 
> > inspector.
> >
> > 2014-12-23 11:50 GMT+01:00 Norbert Hartl <[email protected]>:
> > Is there a way to get the old tools via shortcut?
> >
> > I started something new with pharo 4.0 today. I discovered a bug in 
> > Nautilus where every rename or deletion of a method raises a debugger. I 
> > tried finding the bug but struggled because to me the new inspector is 
> > really confusing. If I "just" want to unfold a few levels of references to 
> > get a glimpse of the structure the new tool prevents me from doing that. 
> > There is just to much information in this window and too much happening to 
> > me.
> > To me it looks like a power tool you need to get used to. So it is probably 
> > not the best tool for simple tasks and people new to this environment might 
> > be overwhelmed. At least I would like to be able to use the old tools.
> >
> > Norbert
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > www.tudorgirba.com
> >
> > "Every thing has its own flow"
> 
> 
> 


Reply via email to