We do not miss brainpower. We miss being able to focus on progress
because we can't fund it well enough.
Phil
On Nov 30, 2015 12:21 PM, "Tudor Girba" <tu...@tudorgirba.com
<mailto:tu...@tudorgirba.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Increasing the community is certainly important, and we welcome any
action that anyone would want to undertake in this direction.
>
> However, talking about the future of Java does not fall in this
category.
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
> > On Nov 30, 2015, at 4:44 AM, EuanM <euan...@gmail.com
<mailto:euan...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > We also need to concentrate on building our community.
> >
> > We build a better platform faster if we have more people.
> >
> > We build a more valuable platform if we have a wider range of valuable
> > use cases to target.
> >
> > Unless and until we hit a critical mass of people joining our
> > community, we *need* to spend some of our focus on community-building.
> >
> > Part of great is being able to build things to sufficient completeness
> > *and* keep them in working order over the long haul. This is easier
> > with more contributors.
> >
> > On 27 November 2015 at 21:27, Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com
<mailto:tu...@tudorgirba.com>> wrote:
> >> Hello everyone,
> >>
> >> Please stop this thread on this mailing list. We need to focus on
building a great platform.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Doru
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 10:05 PM, EuanM <euan...@gmail.com
<mailto:euan...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> First of all - is this true? Where can we read about it?
> >>>
> >>> I cannot find anything about this at
> >>> https://www.oracle.com/search/press
> >>>
> >>> =======================================
> >>>
> >>> If Oracle did make this statement, then what people have said so far
> >>> is true. BUT...
> >>>
> >>> Java got about 40% of its initial momentum from IBM dumping
VisualAge
> >>> and putting all their resources into Java.
> >>>
> >>> Oracle are targetting this move at IBM more than anyone else.
> >>>
> >>> IBM will start to think about how to migrate from Java - as
Oracle are
> >>> telling them they will have to. (It's OUR bat and its OUR ball, and
> >>> no-one else can play with it. Not even the Java Community). And
> >>> IBM's coders do not pay for Java, Eclipse users do not pay for
Java. I
> >>> expect the licence-fee income for JREs is small.
> >>>
> >>> Oracle are doing one of two things - announcing that Java is for
sale
> >>> to device providers - phones (Google is the obvious buyer) or the
> >>> impending Internet of Things (which was what Java was designed for
> >>> originally) or announcing that no-one making an internet of things
> >>> offering should consider Java.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, things live on and on in a kind of zombie state. So yes,
things
> >>> live on as long as their ecosystem does. And they gently wither and
> >>> their ecosystem withers is a long slow drawn out spiral. Which
is why
> >>> we still have Cobol.
> >>>
> >>> People and organisations tend to move from one technology to another
> >>> in an incremental fashion. Swapping a little bit here, and a little
> >>> bit there.
> >>>
> >>> The new target platforms are ones which
> >>> 1) look like they have longevity, and
> >>> 2) have a migration pathway that provides incremental steps.
> >>>
> >>> Offering a compelling advantage is good - but only if the steps 1)
> >>> and 2) are catered to.
> >>>
> >>> IBM VisualAge Smalltalk is still robust, commercially available
> >>> software, and VisualStudio and Gemstone continue to represent
> >>> Smalltalk out to the big world of corporate development.
> >>>
> >>> So that's a start.
> >>>
> >>> Say only 5% of the Java world moves away from Java each year, as a
> >>> result of this announcement.
> >>>
> >>> We *should* wish to take advantage of this announcement.
> >>>
> >>> After all, think what difference having even 0.01% of the
world's Java
> >>> coders moving to Smalltalk would make. How could we help that
> >>> happen?
> >>>
> >>> Think what it would be like to have thought-leaders like Kent
Beck and
> >>> Ward Cunningham back in the Smalltalk fold. How could we help that
> >>> happen?
> >>>
> >>> Think what it would be like to get back all the universities who
moved
> >>> from teaching OO concepts using Smalltalk into teaching them via
Java.
> >>> We now know almost all the ones using Smalltalk as a teaching
language
> >>> by name. Does anyone know even how many universities teach OO via
> >>> Java? What would it be like if 5% of those universities moved to
> >>> Smalltalk each year. How could we help that happen?
> >>>
> >>> Next - do we have any big brained thinkers who can see specific ways
> >>> we can improve interoperation between Java facilities and libraries
> >>> and the Smalltalks? For the next 12 months, we should work on Java
> >>> integration, rather than C++ integration. We should identify the
> >>> three best things for us to do in this regard, and make them
polished
> >>> and compelling. Who is in a position to help that happen?
> >>>
> >>> The final way we can take advantage help the maximum number of
people
> >>> find their way to us is to present a united community front to the
> >>> outside world. In the same way I am both a European and a Scot, we
> >>> need to be Smalltalkers *and*members of our individual
> >>> Smalltalk-platform communities.
> >>>
> >>> How can we help make that happen?
> >>>
> >>> This is not a silver bullet. It's going to cause a long-term
trend in
> >>> events, not a sudden abrupt change. But it will have a real, if
> >>> gradual effect. (assuming that
> >>>
> >>> Equally, it is not something we should ignore. It is something we
> >>> should make use of. We need to put effort into raising our profile
> >>> over the next 6 months.
> >>>
> >>> On 25 November 2015 at 19:51, Casimiro - GMAIL
> >>> <casimiro.barr...@gmail.com <mailto:casimiro.barr...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> >>>> Em 25-11-2015 17:21, Nicolas Anquetil escreveu:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 25/11/2015 19:55, Jimmie Houchin wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Much truth in what you say. However, what Oracle choose to
invest its money,
> >>>> time, personnel resource into Java does affect its present and
future. It
> >>>> has a great affect. But it isn't the whole story. Java has
enough momentum
> >>>> in what already exists in the language and vm and what has been
release
> >>>> under its license, for businesses to keep going for some time
with only what
> >>>> currently exists.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cobol is still alive (and well) after > 50 years.
> >>>> You can expect Java programmers to find jobs for many years yet
to come
> >>>> :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> nicolas
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Nicolas Anquetil
> >>>> RMod team -- Inria Lille
> >>>>
> >>>> 1st: Java is extremely profitable. Each android phone, each
android TV, each
> >>>> android embedded system pays copyrights to Oracle.
> >>>> 2nd: Much of current cloud infrastructure depends on java.
> >>>> 3rd: Java is already obsolete, like Frotran, Cobol, C, C++. It
will continue
> >>>> to be used by same reasons these languages are used.
> >>>>
> >>>> IMHO, discussing java is not profitable. Better to discuss
things to be than
> >>>> talk about things that already happened.
> >>>>
> >>>> casimiro
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> The information contained in this message is confidential and
intended to
> >>>> the recipients specified in the headers. If you received this
message by
> >>>> error, notify the sender immediately. The unauthorized use,
disclosure, copy
> >>>> or alteration of this message are strictly forbidden and
subjected to civil
> >>>> and criminal sanctions.
> >>>>
> >>>> ==
> >>>>
> >>>> This email may be signed using PGP key ID: 0x4134A417
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com>
> >>
> >> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com>
>
> "Presenting is storytelling."
>
>
