2016-06-18 23:34 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com>: > > > 2016-06-18 20:55 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com>: > >> Hi, >> >> Command is an actual key on Mac next to Option(which is Alt) and Control. >> So, Command is a concrete key and mapping it logically to another key on >> another platform is mixing semantics. >> >> I propose to have two distinct layers in the image: >> 1. the raw layer is about having a distinct selector for each concrete >> key that is found on the keyboard. Right now, it seems to me that the VM >> does a bit of interpretation and mapping, and if it does, I think it should >> just provide a distinct code for each distinct key. >> 2. the portable layer is about having a couple of selectors (e.g., #meta, >> #secondaryMeta) that provide consistent mappings to the raw keys. >> >> So, in this way, #command/#control/#alt would belong to layer 1. and >> #meta/#secondaryMeta (we could find a better name) would belong to layer 2. >> >> Does this make sense? >> >> > So, what does that mean for the text navigation mapping in Rubric. Which > shortcut should I use? >
Any way to take a decision? I don't really want to wait until we implement a new layer. > > >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> > On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:42 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > 2016-06-17 18:25 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com>: >> > Hi Nicolai, >> > >> > > On Jun 17, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > 2016-06-17 14:35 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com>: >> > > Hi Nicolai, >> > > >> > > I am a bit removed from the code details at the moment, and I think I >> need to step back a bit :). >> > > >> > > If I understand correctly, you are saying that: >> > > 1. defining bindings with #alt does not work on Windows. This means >> that we should fix this one. Using Cmd should not be a solution here. >> > > >> > > As far as I know, this is on purpose. A key pressed with windows >> (left) alt modified is mapped to "command" >> > > >> > > from vm source: >> > > >> > > * 3) The modifier keys are mapped as follows: >> > > * >> > > * Mac | Win32 >> > > * -------------------- >> > > * Shift -> Shift >> > > * Ctrl -> Ctrl >> > > * Command -> Left ALT >> > > * Option -> Right ALT >> > > >> > > (but actually, the right ALT key does not generate any keystrokes >> (only key down/up) and it is treated as ctrl+alt (windows right Alt key is >> "Alt Gr”) >> > >> > Hmm. I think we have to rethink this one because we need two layers of >> keys: >> > 1. first we should have the raw ones, and >> > >> > what are the "raw" ones? The events the OS generates or the events the >> VM send out to the image? >> > >> > 2. another layer that offers a more logical keys (like meta). >> > >> > Can you explain this a bit more. >> > >> > >> > What do you think? >> > >> > >> > > 2. defining the >> > > bindings for Spotter can indeed be made to override the ones in the >> text editor if needed. But, I think we can start thinking about using #alt. >> > > >> > > using alt+right on windows/linux and >> > > command + right on mac >> > > for dive-in or for text navigation? >> > > >> > > Is there a default keycombination for word-moving in text components >> for mac ? >> > >> > On Mac, typically Alt+Right/Left moves between words. >> > >> > So, we would need a logical modifier that would mean: >> > - Mac: Alt >> > - Win: Ctrl >> > - Linux: Ctrl >> > >> > I though this is what Guillermo already did, but with "command" >> > >> > - Mac: Command >> > - Win/Linux: Ctrl >> > >> > Why did we choose Command and not Alt in the first place, why is Alt >> now better? >> > >> > >> > >> > What do you think? >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Doru >> > >> > >> > > >> > > Does this make sense? >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > Doru >> > > >> > > >> > > > On Jun 17, 2016, at 12:12 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > 2016-06-16 22:45 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com>: >> > > > Hi, >> > > > >> > > > I think we are mixing the topics a bit. The #meta discussion is not >> specific to Spotter actions. >> > > > >> > > > On windows, it is. Because on windows #meta is mapped to #ctrl, and >> you can use ctrl+left/right for moving by "words". This works in a >> browser, an editor, pharos text components but *not* in spotter >> > > > because spotter redefines this keystrokes for dive in /out. >> > > > Currently, both ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right (and shift for >> selection) are working in rubric for moving by "word". But only because the >> (old) shortcut (cmd/shiftcmd) action dispatcher >> > > > explicitly allows both. If we want to remove this and use the >> KMDispatcher framework only, we *need* to define only one mapping, >> otherwise you won't be able to use dive in/out in spotter. >> > > > (Or you could modify spotter to register(overwrite) the mapping on >> the textfield instead of the spotter morph). >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > The idea was to offer a uniform support of keybindings in Pharo, in >> general. >> > > > >> > > > exactly, and using ctrl+left/right uniformly in editor and external >> tools would be great. >> > > > >> > > > Then Guille etal added #meta to have a predictable mapping. >> > > > >> > > > Yes, and to make this work, we have to remove the old keymapping >> implementation (cmd/shiftcmd action map) and use the KMDispatcher >> registration. But I can only continue with this >> > > > if we have a decision what to use, (windows/linux: either >> ctrl+arrow or alt+arrow, mac: whatever is used on a mac for text navigation) >> > > > >> > > > All #cmd places were changed to #meta, and since then we should not >> use explicitly #cmd anymore, except when we know we are on Mac. For a >> portable modifier, we should only use #meta. >> > > > >> > > > At this point, both Rubric and Spotter use #meta. #meta maps on: >> > > > - Mac: Command >> > > > - Win: Control >> > > > - Linus: Control >> > > > >> > > > This means that #alt is now a portable modifier that will not >> conflict with #meta, so we can now think of using that one in combination >> with #meta. >> > > > >> > > > You can not use #alt modifier on windows. A shortcut definition like >> > > > $g alt >> > > > is never recognized. You have to define it >> > > > $g command >> > > > to make it work with as "alt+g"-keycombination (on windows). >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > For text navigation, the situation is a bit complicated. On >> Win/Linux, Ctrl+Right/Left moves the cursor between words. On Mac, >> Cmd+Right/Left moves the cursor at the end/beginning of line. So, using >> #meta for text navigation between words is not entirely accurate. We should >> use #ctrl instead. >> > > > >> > > > This would anyway mean that it would be an option to use #alt for >> Spotter now. But, if we are at it, would anyone be interested in working on >> revisiting the overall keybindings in Pharo? >> > > > >> > > > Cheers, >> > > > Doru >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > 2016-06-07 16:12 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis < >> chisvasileand...@gmail.com>: >> > > > > We can, but I remember there were some discussions and it was >> decided to use meta everywhere. >> > > > > >> > > > > Cheers, >> > > > > Andrei >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > If we don't change this, I'll use cmd+left cmd+right in rubric, >> but this is bad, because all other navigate/select+navigate shortcuts would >> use meta as shortcut modifier. >> > > > > >> > > > > What are the arguments for using meta for dive-in/out shortcuts ? >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Nicolai Hess < >> nicolaih...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > 2016-06-07 15:08 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis < >> chisvasileand...@gmail.com>: >> > > > > During Pharo 5 most shortcuts from tools were changed to use >> "meta" instead of cmd. >> > > > > >> > > > > Cheers, >> > > > > Andrei >> > > > > >> > > > > Can we change this for spotter ? cmd instead of meta >> > > > > >> > > > > ctrl left/right is often used for text components to move to >> next/previous word. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Nicolai Hess < >> nicolaih...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > 2016-06-07 13:57 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com>: >> > > > > >> > > > > Am 07.06.2016 1:56 nachm. schrieb "Henrik Nergaard" < >> henrik.nerga...@uia.no>: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > IIRC the shortcut is not changed, it still is >> meta+right(+shift). Only the tooltip was changed to display the system >> specific key instead of “cmd” so for Windows/Linux this would be “ctrl”. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > No, it changed >> > > > > >> > > > > In #40624, for example, it was cmd (alt-key on windows ) >> right/shift right >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Best regards, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Henrik >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On >> Behalf Of Nicolai Hess >> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 12:56 PM >> > > > > > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> >> > > > > > Subject: [Pharo-dev] GT-Spotter dive in shortcut >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Why did the shortcut for dive-in element/category changed from >> > > > > > >> > > > > > cmd+right >> > > > > > >> > > > > > cmd+shift+right >> > > > > > >> > > > > > to >> > > > > > >> > > > > > ctrl+right >> > > > > > ctrl+shift+right >> > > > > > >> > > > > > I know there were some discussions about this and that the >> behavior changed some >> > > > > > >> > > > > > time ago, but I don't know the rational behind this. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > thanks >> > > > > > >> > > > > > nicolai >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > www.tudorgirba.com >> > > > www.feenk.com >> > > > >> > > > "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, >> > > > you will end up with a messy haircut." >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > www.tudorgirba.com >> > > www.feenk.com >> > > >> > > "Quality cannot be an afterthought." >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > -- >> > www.tudorgirba.com >> > www.feenk.com >> > >> > "Being happy is a matter of choice." >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow." >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
