Hi, > On Aug 7, 2016, at 9:15 PM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > 2016-08-07 19:58 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[email protected]>: > > > On Aug 7, 2016, at 6:24 PM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > 2016-08-07 16:23 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[email protected]>: > > Hi, > > > > > On Aug 7, 2016, at 4:13 PM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-08-07 15:23 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[email protected]>: > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 2016, at 11:16 AM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-08-03 10:02 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[email protected]>: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 2016, at 9:16 AM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-18 23:34 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-18 20:55 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[email protected]>: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > Command is an actual key on Mac next to Option(which is Alt) and > > > > > Control. So, Command is a concrete key and mapping it logically to > > > > > another key on another platform is mixing semantics. > > > > > > > > > > I propose to have two distinct layers in the image: > > > > > 1. the raw layer is about having a distinct selector for each > > > > > concrete key that is found on the keyboard. Right now, it seems to me > > > > > that the VM does a bit of interpretation and mapping, and if it does, > > > > > I think it should just provide a distinct code for each distinct key. > > > > > 2. the portable layer is about having a couple of selectors (e.g., > > > > > #meta, #secondaryMeta) that provide consistent mappings to the raw > > > > > keys. > > > > > > > > > > So, in this way, #command/#control/#alt would belong to layer 1. and > > > > > #meta/#secondaryMeta (we could find a better name) would belong to > > > > > layer 2. > > > > > > > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what does that mean for the text navigation mapping in Rubric. > > > > > Which shortcut should I use? > > > > > > > > > > Any way to take a decision? > > > > > > > > > > I don't really want to wait until we implement a new layer. > > > > > > > > Thanks for the ping. > > > > > > > > I think that you cannot use now properly a uniform shortcut if we do > > > > not introduce these “layers”. I also think that we are talking about a > > > > couple of methods, so the effort is only in making the decision. I > > > > think that given that nobody disagreed, we can go ahead with it. > > > > > > > > For the specific question related to text navigation in Rubric, you > > > > could use #meta. > > > > > > > > But how? > > > > If I add this to RubTextEditor class>>#buildShortcutsOn: aBuilder > > > > > > > > > > > > (aBuilder shortcut: #nextWord) > > > > category: RubTextEditor name > > > > default: Character arrowRight meta > > > > do: [ :target :morph :event | target editor cursorRight: event] > > > > description: 'move to next word'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (aBuilder shortcut: #previousWord) > > > > category: RubTextEditor name > > > > default: Character arrowLeft meta > > > > do: [ :target :morph :event | target editor cursorLeft: event] > > > > description: 'move to the previous word'. > > > > > > > > > > > > we can not dive in/out in spotter. > > > > > > > > This is why I asked: > > > > > > > > Why did the shortcut for dive-in element/category changed from > > > > cmd+right > > > > cmd+shift+right > > > > to > > > > ctrl+right > > > > ctrl+shift+right > > > > > > Oh, I see now! > > > > > > The change was made from cmd+right to meta+right in the move of Guille to > > > make all keybindings uniform. > > > > > > If a keybinding would be problematic in Spotter, we could also override > > > the keybinding directly in the Spotter editor, I think. What do you think? > > > > > > what is Spotter editor? if it is the text input field, yes, but you have > > > to overwrite it on this morph > > > > That is what I meant, to define the keys for diving twice, once in the > > spotter morph and once in the text input field. This should solve the > > problem, right? > > > > twice ? > > On a second thought, this is probably not needed because the focus should > always be in the text input morph :). > > Still, we would only do that after we introduce the “layering”. > > Would this be Ok with you? > > Cheers, > Doru > > Oh well .... > Please take a look at the current implementation of event handling, just 10 > minutes or so. > how we use different (shortcut) event registration > shortcut handling > event handling > some are defined in code, some shortcuts handled by the editor , some by the > morph > some shortcuts are defined on the morph that gets the events, some are > defined on other morphs. > some event (shortcuts spotters dive in / dive out) only works *because* we > have the two shortcut handlers (handleKeystroke: / dispatchKeystroke:) > > and tell me that it is a good idea to just start introducing something new > > I really think we should clean up what we have now or at least finish the > move to the kmdispatcher event handling.
Sure, but I think the two issues are independent from each other. I think that we can add the “layers” that I mentioned on top of what we have right now to offer tools built on top a choice of platform-independent modifiers, and then we can still continue cleaning underneath. I mean, if we change #meta and add #secondaryMeta it should work, not? Or do I miss something? Cheers, Doru > > > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > right now spotter defines the shortcut on the spotter morph. This won' t > > > work > > > if rubtext components define the word-movement with the kmdispatcher. ( I > > > already explained why). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:42 PM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-17 18:25 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[email protected]>: > > > > > > Hi Nicolai, > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 17, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-17 14:35 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > Hi Nicolai, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit removed from the code details at the moment, and I > > > > > > > think I need to step back a bit :). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I understand correctly, you are saying that: > > > > > > > 1. defining bindings with #alt does not work on Windows. This > > > > > > > means that we should fix this one. Using Cmd should not be a > > > > > > > solution here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, this is on purpose. A key pressed with windows > > > > > > > (left) alt modified is mapped to "command" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from vm source: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * 3) The modifier keys are mapped as follows: > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > * Mac | Win32 > > > > > > > * -------------------- > > > > > > > * Shift -> Shift > > > > > > > * Ctrl -> Ctrl > > > > > > > * Command -> Left ALT > > > > > > > * Option -> Right ALT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (but actually, the right ALT key does not generate any keystrokes > > > > > > > (only key down/up) and it is treated as ctrl+alt (windows right > > > > > > > Alt key is "Alt Gr”) > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm. I think we have to rethink this one because we need two layers > > > > > > of keys: > > > > > > 1. first we should have the raw ones, and > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the "raw" ones? The events the OS generates or the events > > > > > > the VM send out to the image? > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. another layer that offers a more logical keys (like meta). > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you explain this a bit more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. defining the > > > > > > > bindings for Spotter can indeed be made to override the ones in > > > > > > > the text editor if needed. But, I think we can start thinking > > > > > > > about using #alt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > using alt+right on windows/linux and > > > > > > > command + right on mac > > > > > > > for dive-in or for text navigation? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there a default keycombination for word-moving in text > > > > > > > components for mac ? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mac, typically Alt+Right/Left moves between words. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, we would need a logical modifier that would mean: > > > > > > - Mac: Alt > > > > > > - Win: Ctrl > > > > > > - Linux: Ctrl > > > > > > > > > > > > I though this is what Guillermo already did, but with "command" > > > > > > > > > > > > - Mac: Command > > > > > > - Win/Linux: Ctrl > > > > > > > > > > > > Why did we choose Command and not Alt in the first place, why is > > > > > > Alt now better? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 17, 2016, at 12:12 AM, Nicolai Hess > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-16 22:45 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we are mixing the topics a bit. The #meta discussion is > > > > > > > > not specific to Spotter actions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On windows, it is. Because on windows #meta is mapped to #ctrl, > > > > > > > > and you can use ctrl+left/right for moving by "words". This > > > > > > > > works in a browser, an editor, pharos text components but > > > > > > > > *not* in spotter > > > > > > > > because spotter redefines this keystrokes for dive in /out. > > > > > > > > Currently, both ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right (and shift > > > > > > > > for selection) are working in rubric for moving by "word". But > > > > > > > > only because the (old) shortcut (cmd/shiftcmd) action dispatcher > > > > > > > > explicitly allows both. If we want to remove this and use the > > > > > > > > KMDispatcher framework only, we *need* to define only one > > > > > > > > mapping, otherwise you won't be able to use dive in/out in > > > > > > > > spotter. > > > > > > > > (Or you could modify spotter to register(overwrite) the mapping > > > > > > > > on the textfield instead of the spotter morph). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea was to offer a uniform support of keybindings in > > > > > > > > Pharo, in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, and using ctrl+left/right uniformly in editor and > > > > > > > > external tools would be great. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then Guille etal added #meta to have a predictable mapping. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and to make this work, we have to remove the old > > > > > > > > keymapping implementation (cmd/shiftcmd action map) and use the > > > > > > > > KMDispatcher registration. But I can only continue with this > > > > > > > > if we have a decision what to use, (windows/linux: either > > > > > > > > ctrl+arrow or alt+arrow, mac: whatever is used on a mac for > > > > > > > > text navigation) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All #cmd places were changed to #meta, and since then we should > > > > > > > > not use explicitly #cmd anymore, except when we know we are on > > > > > > > > Mac. For a portable modifier, we should only use #meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, both Rubric and Spotter use #meta. #meta maps on: > > > > > > > > - Mac: Command > > > > > > > > - Win: Control > > > > > > > > - Linus: Control > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This means that #alt is now a portable modifier that will not > > > > > > > > conflict with #meta, so we can now think of using that one in > > > > > > > > combination with #meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can not use #alt modifier on windows. A shortcut definition > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > $g alt > > > > > > > > is never recognized. You have to define it > > > > > > > > $g command > > > > > > > > to make it work with as "alt+g"-keycombination (on windows). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For text navigation, the situation is a bit complicated. On > > > > > > > > Win/Linux, Ctrl+Right/Left moves the cursor between words. On > > > > > > > > Mac, Cmd+Right/Left moves the cursor at the end/beginning of > > > > > > > > line. So, using #meta for text navigation between words is not > > > > > > > > entirely accurate. We should use #ctrl instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would anyway mean that it would be an option to use #alt > > > > > > > > for Spotter now. But, if we are at it, would anyone be > > > > > > > > interested in working on revisiting the overall keybindings in > > > > > > > > Pharo? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Nicolai Hess > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 16:12 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > > > We can, but I remember there were some discussions and it was > > > > > > > > > decided to use meta everywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we don't change this, I'll use cmd+left cmd+right in > > > > > > > > > rubric, but this is bad, because all other > > > > > > > > > navigate/select+navigate shortcuts would use meta as shortcut > > > > > > > > > modifier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the arguments for using meta for dive-in/out > > > > > > > > > shortcuts ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Nicolai Hess > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 15:08 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > > > During Pharo 5 most shortcuts from tools were changed to use > > > > > > > > > "meta" instead of cmd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we change this for spotter ? cmd instead of meta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ctrl left/right is often used for text components to move to > > > > > > > > > next/previous word. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Nicolai Hess > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 13:57 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 07.06.2016 1:56 nachm. schrieb "Henrik Nergaard" > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IIRC the shortcut is not changed, it still is > > > > > > > > > > meta+right(+shift). Only the tooltip was changed to display > > > > > > > > > > the system specific key instead of “cmd” so for > > > > > > > > > > Windows/Linux this would be “ctrl”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, it changed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In #40624, for example, it was cmd (alt-key on windows ) > > > > > > > > > right/shift right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Henrik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Pharo-dev [mailto:[email protected]] > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of Nicolai Hess > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 12:56 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: Pharo Development List <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Pharo-dev] GT-Spotter dive in shortcut > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why did the shortcut for dive-in element/category changed > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmd+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmd+shift+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ctrl+right > > > > > > > > > > ctrl+shift+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know there were some discussions about this and that the > > > > > > > > > > behavior changed some > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time ago, but I don't know the rational behind this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicolai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, > > > > > > > > you will end up with a messy haircut." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Quality cannot be an afterthought." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > > > > > "Being happy is a matter of choice." > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > > > "Every thing has its own flow." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > "Don't give to get. Just give." > > > > > > -- > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?" > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > www.feenk.com > > > > "We cannot reach the flow of things unless we let go." > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "It's not how it is, it is how we see it." -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Beauty is where we see it."
