I really like STON , even more than I like JSON. Very readable and easy to
edit format. Very good idea, I would probably something similar but less
more elegant.

You probably know this, but if you host the ston configurations files as
you do in that link , Github gives you the ability to directly read files
from inside a git repo without having to download it via its blob
directory. So one could keep those ston config files in a repo in git and
have access to it from any computer , any OS, of course under the condition
he/she is connected to internet.

This trick is what I used for checking whether there is a new version of my
project ChronosManager in my git repo. I added the latest version in the
RELEASENOTES text file that is located on the top level repo which it
compares with its internal versions (just a class variable) and if it finds
it bigger it alerts the user for an update.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/kilon/ChronosManager/master/RELEASENOTES.md

Top version is marked X because is not yet a stable release. This way the
project wont download it.

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:35 PM Dale Henrichs <
[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> On 10/22/16 12:52 AM, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>
> Actually we dont, I am using the terminal to get and build my own images.
> Curl + use of startup scripts are more than enough. Simply , easy and
> straightforward. Pharo offers a super easy way to export any method as a
> command line argument. So there is literally no excuse.
>
> Pharo already offers a metacello argument so you are set to go on
> installing anything you want through the terminal in your image and also
> offers evaluation of smalltalk code as argument. But I prefer startup
> scripts, I have made a startup script that can detect the name of images
> and install different packages to them, you can do insane things with
> startup scripts actually.
>
> you can find my build setup here
>
> https://github.com/kilon/makePharo
>
> For GsDevKit_home, I have a projects directory[1] where I store
> TDProjectSpecEntryDefinitions ... which are the moral equivalent of each of
> your `Metacello new` lines in the script ... By putting a Metacello load
> "spec" in an object, it is easier to customize the build of an image, than
> it is to edit and manage a smalltalk script. For example in tODE here are
> the commands that would be used to construct your image (the name of the
> project refers to the names the .ston objects in the projects directory:
>
>   project load IconFactory
>   project load ChronosManager
>   project load Nireas
>   project load Ephestos
>
> With scripts based on something like this, it is easy to change all of the
> load scripts sharing the load specs (TDProjectSpecEntryDefinitions) by
> editing the .ston file on disk ... all builds going forward would pick up
> the new specification ...
>
> Dale
>
> [1]
> https://github.com/GsDevKit/GsDevKit_home/tree/master/sys/default/server/projects
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 10:06 AM [email protected] <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> We need some easy to use gem-style installer on the command line.
>
> Pharo is perfectly usable for any kind of project provided energy is
> poured in.
>
> Things are in flux, yes, and it is frustrating not to have it all perfect.
> So what? If we weren't interested in wild things why would we be here after
> all?
>
> Think long term: 10 years from now, improvements will have been massively
> compounding (not to mention 20).
>
> I hope to have a huge win with Pharo business wise and be able to fund a
> serious team. That's my dream. I am actively working on it.
>
> Pharo can stay relevant for that long I believe. I love the way it helps
> me think. I love the fact that I can look everywhere I want. I love the
> fact that this community has balls. I love to show the magic we can do with
> it. If it all goes nowhere, I do not even mind as I have a damn awesome
> time around here.
>
> Now, I also want a working text model. This feels like a kind of
> psychological roadblock. Like a self sabotage. Let's put that dead rat on
> the table and make something about it.
>
> I like Doru's Pillar editor. I guess the underlying engine will evolve to
> make it faster. Great. Grafoscopio will also be a driving force there I
> believe. Pharo can be superspeedy, no core problem.
>
> Sorry for the rant.
>
> Now back to promoting Pharo in front of Android/Angular/Java people this
> afternoon at http://devfest.be (note that this is the 3rd time I show
> Pharo/Amber there - they could kick me out but do not).
>
> /Phil
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 8:12 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Actually you are wrong, its not hard to use C libraries from Pharo. UFFI
> is not a restart, its a continuation of Nativeboost , they are very
> similar.
>
> Pharo FFI, whether its the old FFI, Alien, Nativeboost or UFFI, is more or
> less the same. In the end an FFI is defined by C syntax , Pharo UFFI
> borrows the easy of use of Nativeboost that allows you to take c functions
> definition and use them as they are with a simple copy paste.
>
> Pharo is also is based on very good integration with C , like Squeak can
> output its code as C code via the Slang interface though it comes with some
> limitations.
>
> The availability of C libraries to Pharo is a reflection of the community
> size. Comparing with Ruby is very unfair , as Ruby is vastly more popular
> (think in thousand times) , hence why you see so many C libraries wrapped
> for Ruby. Of course python kicks Ruby ass kung fu style with its vastly
> superior array of C wrapped libraries.
>
> The moment you decide to use an unpopular language as Pharo then if you
> are not prepared to get your hands dirty and you expect things on your
> plate like Ruby or Python , then its time to go back to Ruby or Python.
>
> Pharo is not in flux , its evolving, every new tool or library you see is
> an evolution of something else.
>
> We dont need Gems for Pharo, Dale has done a great job with Metacello, its
> easy to make a pharo project in git/github and have it install all pharo
> code and built C libraries wrapped for Pharo. Just because people are not
> in the habit of doing this does not mean its not super easy to be done. For
> example AFAIK my project ChronosManager was one of the first project to
> install from Catalog Browser not only its Pharo code but also , pngs and
> audio files. I made even an autoupdate feature that pings my github repo to
> see if there are any new commits and then if so it alerts the user and give
> him the ability to download the update with a single click. All that is
> metacello.
>
> Metacello is probably one of the best if not the best package distribution
> systems out there. Definetly vastly better than Python's PyPi and Node'js
> NPM . I cannot praise it enough and I have no problem criticising Pharo
> when I must. Dale has done an amazing job, period.
>
> On the GUI front on the other hand, its messy, no doubt about it. Morphic
> is huge, ugly and almost not maintained. Bloc is probably going to be the
> next step.
>
> I think the issue here is that we dont have Arduino or Raspberry Pi guys.
> Same story for my field, 3d graphics. There is a OpenGL wrapper and the
> Wodden graphics engine and nothing else. I and the author of Woden are the
> only people here interested into 3d graphics, he makes Woden, I have made a
> bridge with Blender Python , for using Pharo to make Blender addons and I
> am now in the process of making a bridge with Unreal Engine.
>
> I dont see why you would have an issue using Pharo from Raspberry Pi, we
> already support SDL and you can even run Pharo with no GUI from the
> terminal and export any Pharo method as a command line argument. My Python
> socket bridge also showed me that is dead easy to connect Pharo with other
> programming languages, in my case python , with just a few hundred lines of
> code. Typical IPC.
>
> So there are no excuses for not using Pharo, from there on, it depends on
> your specific needs and wants and taste.
>
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 7:05 PM Todd Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2016, at 07:30, Norbert Hartl <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> The current (!) complaint is rather based on the fact that everything
> regarding the graphics backend, widget and tools appears sometimes as an
> indefinite loop of reinventing stuff and improving and never get the job
> done. Did I mention 64bit, UFFI,… I'm glad all these topics are worked one
> and I see a bright future if half of them are done. But then sometimes it
> looks rather dark and the light at the end of the tunnel just went off :)
>
>
> I feel you.
>
> I very much want to use Pharo to build devices from things like Raspberry
> Pi's, iPhones, and Androids.  I need access to native libraries.  You can't
> rewrite everything ever in Smalltalk and I don't really see a good reason
> to.
>
> I've taken about ten years off from doing Smalltalk and I'm trying to get
> back into it.  My interest is piqued because I want to build nice custom
> systems using the nifty new cheap goodies like Arduinos and RPis and it
> seems tossing together a full screen Pharo image would be a great way to
> build these appliances.  In that time the story for how to call out to
> native code has changed...twice.  Everything is broken or in flux again.
>
> To me, it doesn't feel like there's any more platform to build apps on
> than there was ten years ago and everything is still "just around the
> corner".  Pharo seem to be an experiment in building next generation
> programming tools using deprecated last generation programming tools. I
> don't see a lot of useful programs being built atop it - largely because
> the base is constantly shifting about.
>
> It is disheartening that the Ruby guys can crank out gems with native
> libraries that compile and work on every platform and pharo is still
> constantly half broken with loadable native code "doable" but only with
> great effort.
>
> I looked and Moz2D doesn't seem to have a light weight build for Raspberry
> Pi.  Is hitching Pharo to a heavy weight graphics library as a core
> requirement a good idea?
>
> I'm starting to think maybe we need something like Gems for Pharo -
> dynamically loadable libraries and resources - compiled at install if
> necessary.
>
>
>
>

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