Hi,

> On Dec 19, 2016, at 5:49 PM, Ben Coman <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 2016-12-19 8:46 GMT+01:00 Tudor Girba <[email protected]>:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I would prefer if this thread does not transform in a terminology debate
>>> too much.
>>> 
>> 
>> @Doru, but you asked "What do you  think" and I think Bens response about
>> sampleScript is valid
>> 
>> @Ben Did you check Dorus blog entry
>> (http://gtoolkit.org/doc/Examples/examples.html) I think this makes
>> it more clear why gttExamples are more than just methods producsing
>> "samples"
> 
> 
> I hadn't seen that before.  Thanks for the tip.
> So I cede the point the aim is something more than just a sample.

Thank you!

But, if we are at it, please let’s continue and brainstorm. The existing 
implementation should be taken as a first fully working version. It would be 
great to have people play with it and find its weaknesses.

Cheers,
Doru



> cheers -ben
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Example is a term that fits both the code and the returning object.
>>> <gtExample> is applied on a method and it primarily describes that method.
>>> The term “example” also describes the meta object that is wraps the concrete
>>> return value with the information from the method (for example, the label of
>>> the example, the link to the subject, or the dependencies to other
>>> examples). The example term is also important from the metaphor point of
>>> view: "we learn from examples”.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Doru
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 19, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Ben Coman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Tudor Girba <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> As you might know, a while ago we created GTExamples, a framework that
>>>>> supports both example-based live documentation and testing:
>>>>> http://gtoolkit.org/doc/Examples/examples.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> GTExamples was part of the GTInspector for a while, but as it evolved,
>>>>> we pulled it out in a separate project. This separate project is not in
>>>>> Pharo anymore but it is part of the full GToolkit configuration (Pharo 
>>>>> only
>>>>> ships the core of GToolkit). The idea of taking GTExamples out was to 
>>>>> allow
>>>>> the community to have a more elaborate discussion about the role of 
>>>>> examples
>>>>> in our environment.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have invited you to join that conversation, but it did not take off.
>>>>> I understand that perhaps the topic does not look appealing at this 
>>>>> moment.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We will certainly continue to evolve GTExamples both on the semantics
>>>>> level of the dependency constructs and on the integration with tools. Our
>>>>> goal is to enable a new practice that I would like to call Example-Guilded
>>>>> Development (or Example-Driven Development), and position Pharo to be the
>>>>> only platform on which someone can do that. But, that is our goal, and 
>>>>> does
>>>>> not have to be the same with other people’s goal.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Right now, GTExamples relies on the <gtExample> pragma to denote a
>>>>> method that returns an object that exemplifies something.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I've previously not done a good job of promoting the use of <sample>
>>>> for this.  I'll try spinning this wheel once more.
>>>> 
>>>> There are two concepts to consider:
>>>> * The returned object.
>>>> * The method code that creates the returned object.
>>>> 
>>>> The "returned object" is best considered a <sample>.
>>>> The "method code" is best considered an <example> that produces the
>>>> sample.
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-example-and-vs-sample/
>>>> 
>>>> The term "exemplifies/exemplification" associates equally with both...
>>>> * http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/example
>>>> * http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/sample
>>>> but for example... from a draw full of cutlery you don't "take an
>>>> example spoon", you "take a sample spoon".
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> So it depends on where you want the focus to be.
>>>> * If the focus is on working with a sample object, then <sample> makes
>>>> a better pragma for the method creating it.
>>>> * If the focus is on the code producing the sample, then <example> is
>>>> a better choice.
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe you are constrained by existing industry terminology,
>>>> but "Example-Driven Development" might be equally called
>>>> "Sample-Driven Development".
>>>> Without having read into the topic, intuitively the former broadly
>>>> encompasses copying static code
>>>> while the latter feels more limited to working with an object.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My proposal...
>>>> * <sample> provides a narrower sense of side-effect-free provision of
>>>> object to work with.  "Samples are often tangible parts and can be
>>>> observed"
>>>> * <example> provides a broader sense of showing how things work
>>>> together, in ways that may or may-not include side effects that you
>>>> don't actually want to execute - just to refer to.  "Examples are used
>>>> [to] illustrate something. [Its] expected that the example will be
>>>> imitated and replicated among its audience."
>>>> * <script> provides a sense of system management, of methods causing
>>>> significant side effects.  You won't want to copy these methods, just
>>>> make use them.
>>>> 
>>>> <sampleScript> feels awkward to apply to examples, since by my these
>>>> are neither samples nor scripts.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> cheers -ben
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Executing this method as an example should have no side-effects (either
>>>>> because the method itself does not have a side-effect, or because the
>>>>> example method defines how the cleanup should happen using the mechanism
>>>>> provided by GTExamples).
>>>>> 
>>>>> This meaning is different from the meaning of the <example> pragma used
>>>>> through Pharo.  There are currently 55 places that use this pragma inside
>>>>> Pharo and most of them come from FastTable. As things will progress and 
>>>>> more
>>>>> libraries might use GTExamples, the situation can become confusing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> To make things less confusing in the future, I would like to define the
>>>>> meaning of the <example> to denote a method that returns an object without
>>>>> having side effects. Would you agree with this?
>>>>> 
>>>>> If yes, I would suggest the name of the new pragma that would replace
>>>>> the existing one to include “script” in the name. For example,
>>>>> <sampleScript>.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Doru
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>> www.feenk.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."
>>> 
>>> --
>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>> www.feenk.com
>>> 
>>> “Software has no shape. Actually, it has no one shape. It has many."

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"If you can't say why something is relevant, 
it probably isn't."


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