Dimitris, To contribute you do not need to code Java at all, never, period.
Sent from my Commodore 64 > On 30 Dec 2016, at 11:49 pm, Dimitris Chloupis <[email protected]> wrote: > > The problem for an open source community as this one is time and money > > As Stef says "give me a million dollars and I will give you a Pharo million > times better" > > that's the dream world > > in real world we all have very limited time that we focus on the sides of > Pharo that interest us the most. Obviously we are here to help people use > Pharo under any condition and requirement. As such I think and hope that I > speak for everyone that we are more than happy to offer advice to help Pharo > extend its influence on other platforms. > > To actually contribute code will need Pharo developers that are experienced > Java developers too (I am not). > > Problem is that neither Java nor Javascript have good reputation and as such > people who can avoid them do so. > > For example even though we can justify the freeze of a project like Redline > Smalltalk because of the tiny size of the Smalltalk community but take > something huge in popularity like Python, the official release of Python is > CPython with an estimate of over 2 million developers world wide , Jython > which is the port of Python in JVM has actually smaller community than we > have at least last time I checked few gears ago. Just think about it for a > minute. > > Its super hard to convince a python developer to switch to jython and so is > for a java developer. > > This applies for all languages, I think the reasoning is that each language > is not just a tool but an entire culture and people pick them for specific > reasons, > > Javascript situation is more or less the same, python has no actively > supported javascript equivelant. > > Again I am using Python as an example, different languages same or similar > scenario. > > This is why I suggested to bring Redline closer to Pharo rather than porting > some Pharo classes to JVM. > > Amber failed to gain traction because it did the opposite of what I am > suggesting , tried to convince people to give up Pharo and move completely to > Amber (for the JS part) which is why it implemented its own IDE etc. > Obviously it did not work and Amber is barely alive. > > PharoJS seem on the right path , at least for me, so maybe there is still > hope. > > In any case its not hard to use libraries from other programming language in > Pharo with some form of IPC, I do this for using python libraries from Pharo > and I making something similar for C++. Took me only a few hundred lines of > code to do it for both and works pretty well. IPC can work with pretty much > any language and as many languages at the same time as you want or your > processor can handle. > > There are a ton of projects out there that use multiple languages that work > together as one unit. Problem is that you can approach this through a billion > diffirent angles and it will depend on the specific problem you want to > solve. I build my own IPC tools to fit my specific needs which are Unreal > (game engine) and Blender (3d application). > > There was a cool idea from a presentation a Smalltalker once gave about > moving a DigiTalk implementation to JVM whithout changing a thing inside the > image. Instead they ported the bytecode from smalltalk to JVM and used JNI > for the C libraries. Sound too good to be true, they supposed to release it > open source ages ago but that turned out to be another vaporware. > > I also agree that Cuis is a very good start to find the most essential > libraries for Pharo. There is also a minimal image for pharo on the dowload > section of the website which should give a good idea. But as it is to be > expected its impossible to predict what is essential for each Pharo user and > there lies the challenge. > >> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 1:59 PM Tim Mackinnon <[email protected]> wrote: >> Actually I think James is on to something and we should try and support him. >> >> Having recently played with AWS Lambda and written a few Alexa services in >> JS, I was intrigued how you would approach such end points in Smalltalk and >> whether it would be a productive language and environment to run them in. >> (Btw - the lambda environment is very interesting - scalable infrastructure >> that is peanuts to run). >> >> To try this, the basic building blocks provided by these services are either >> JS or Java - so for Smalltalkers that sounds like Smalltalk running on Amber >> or Redline. >> >> I find Amber and all the JS infrastructure very daunting - gulp, amd etc. >> And for Lambda you also get caught into this world of package management and >> loading up JS dependencies. >> >> I'm intrigued how a jvm Smalltalk might approach this problem (as well as >> many others I'm sure). We seem to achieve a lot with quite a small image of >> building blocks. >> >> As pharo is a research community, can we help James explore this a bit more? >> Certainly there is a drive to a minimal Smalltalk image - so that work can >> immediately feed into this. >> >> To add to the research'y side context - these service infrastructures seem >> to feel a lot like callable blocks of code. We are used to thinking in this >> way in our image - we use blocks everywhere. How might they run in a >> scaleable environment vs straight function call languages? >> >> Tim >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 30 Dec 2016, at 09:31, Dimitris Chloupis <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I think what most people would want is to use Java libraries from inside >>> Pharo. You seem to want to bring Pharo classes to Redline Runtime . >>> >>> I have the opposite idea of bringing Redline Runtime inside Pharo and give >>> us Pharo developers an easy way to use Java libraries and mix pharo with >>> java code. I think also Pharo would serve great as an IDE for Redline >>> Smalltalk. >>> >>> I already have JNIPort thats does that but none will complain to have >>> another tool around, I am sure it will come very handy. >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 2:08 AM James Ladd <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hi Pharo People, >>> >>> I have continued work on Redline Smalltalk and I'm wanting to discuss what >>> the absolute minimum >>> set of Classes and method should be included in the Redline Runtime. >>> >>> Would anyone here like to participate in that discussion? >>> >>> - James. >>> Redline Smalltalk <http://redline.st> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://forum.world.st/Redline-Talking-Runtime-basics-tp4928375.html >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>
