On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 1:00 PM ducasse <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi eliot > > What is common in your thread is that we always look like the super > emotional, or bad guys. > You never ask yourselves why Esteban left the VM mailing-list. > What is common is that I discuss technical matters (difficulties in using Tonel/git, architectural issues with developing the VM) and organizational issues (Estebans' unhelpful response regarding an option in Tonel) and you immediately personalize, do not bring up a single technical issue, and then make grand pronouncements like :this is the last email I'll send you". Laughable and sad. > > And I do not see why you cannot fork Tonel to produce your own version. > Git is about distributed projects. People do that all the time. You can > take Tonel and hack it to death > without having your hacks pushed back into Pharo and this is perfectly ok > for us. > So Esteban has the right to say no and you have the right to hack your own > version. > > If you want to have some support for porting Scorch/Sista to github and > loading you should ask > but asking it more nicely. > > About the simulation of the UI, if you do not talk to us we cannot pay > attention. > I do not see why we cannot keep a package with the image level UI for the > simulator. > Now again you are talking about collaboration but you do not talk to us > and you do not > listen to us so do not expect that people are willing to spend their free > time to help. > > > I had deep concerns that the pursuit of git integration would end up > splitting the Pharo and Squeak communities and indeed this is now in > progress. I am utterly unmotivated by the lack of cooperation, the sheer > arrogance and bullying of those that say "you will move to git/tonel or > else”, > > > This is fun to ask Pharo not to grow up to use modern technology to manage > source code under the > premisses that Squeak cannot or will not. > This is so funny how you state it. I will not comment more than that. > People around are adults and they will be able to judge by themselves. > > and considering leaving VMMaker altogether. > > > If you leave VMMaker, let us know because we will port it to Github and > make it work in Pharo. > Esteban did it several times in the past. At least this will have the > benefit to clarify the situation. > > I think that this is good that you tell us that you do not want to > cooperate with us. > This will have at least the impact to kick our ass and pay attention to > us. > > The only things that are keeping me interested are Ron Teitelbaum's Terf > and me pursuing a PhD on register allocation in the context of Sista/Scorch > with Robert Hirshfeld's group at HPI. > > Here's the kind of crap people like Ducasse throw at me: > > "Eliot > > At the end of the day I will probably ask the two phds that should work on > language > design to use truffle or pypy > because let us face it we cannot work with the Pharo VM. Else we will > simply have to fork it (because we do not want to have > to jump over cuis, newspeak, squeak code constraints and I do not what) > and it will be another drama is in the pico world > of the “open” smalltalk VM. " > > I am so over this crap. > > > This is not a crap. I can restate what I said. Because of responsibility > of a research team and creating a future for students. You know I’m not > alone, I have quite some responsibility towards PhD students > of my group and yes I cannot make them fail by construction (or produce > unadequate results) > just by imposing them to use a system with far too many constraints. > > I will not ask them to work on the openSmalltalk vm directly because this > is not their responsibilities > to have to jump over newspeak ifdef and others. A job of a PhD is to be > able to brainstorm and create new ideas. Look at Stefan Marr (He is working > on SOM or Truffle). > > Now you can think that I’m an asshole, arrogant, or I do not know pick > what you want. > ***I do not care***. I do not have Diva syndrome I have responsibilities > towards people. > > I was discussing with some truffle experts and they told me that this is > can be complex. I believe it. > I would like to avoid pypy for obvious reasons. So what we will probably > do for their PhD is to see if we can use a light version of opensmalltalk. > I do not want to ask them to jump over many things that are totally useless > for them all the time. > > > PS: personnally I do not get why VMMaker would be the only project on > earth that cannot be managed using git and Pharo. > But for us the future is Git and we will continue to build on this > infrastructure. > > > Stef > > > _,,,^..^,,,_ > best, Eliot > > > -- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
