Gentlemen, I am really sad to read through this animosity. Please, let’s go back to technical discussions.
Tudor > On Feb 17, 2019, at 10:46 PM, Eliot Miranda <[email protected]> wrote: > > Stephane, > > On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 1:33 PM Stéphane Ducasse <[email protected]> > wrote: > Eliot > > Contrary to you I do not wish your death. > > "Drop dead" does not mean I want you dead. It is English for "Dégagé". > > So can you respect me? > > No. I do not. I've got to the end of my attempt to deal with your > destructive relationships. I am merely one in a long line including Camillo, > Cl ément, and others. > > One reason I can't respe3ct you is that you are not a man of your word. You > sent an email 23 minutes ago that proudly declared "This is my last email > sent to you.". Well done for keeping your word for 23 minutes. What's your > record? > > > > > Stef > >> On 17 Feb 2019, at 22:30, Eliot Miranda <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 1:00 PM ducasse <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi eliot >> >> What is common in your thread is that we always look like the super >> emotional, or bad guys. >> You never ask yourselves why Esteban left the VM mailing-list. >> >> What is common is that I discuss technical matters (difficulties in using >> Tonel/git, architectural issues with developing the VM) and organizational >> issues (Estebans' unhelpful response regarding an option in Tonel) and you >> immediately personalize, do not bring up a single technical issue, and then >> make grand pronouncements like :this is the last email I'll send you". >> Laughable and sad. >> >> >> And I do not see why you cannot fork Tonel to produce your own version. >> Git is about distributed projects. People do that all the time. You can take >> Tonel and hack it to death >> without having your hacks pushed back into Pharo and this is perfectly ok >> for us. >> So Esteban has the right to say no and you have the right to hack your own >> version. >> >> If you want to have some support for porting Scorch/Sista to github and >> loading you should ask >> but asking it more nicely. >> >> About the simulation of the UI, if you do not talk to us we cannot pay >> attention. >> I do not see why we cannot keep a package with the image level UI for the >> simulator. >> Now again you are talking about collaboration but you do not talk to us and >> you do not >> listen to us so do not expect that people are willing to spend their free >> time to help. >> >> >>> I had deep concerns that the pursuit of git integration would end up >>> splitting the Pharo and Squeak communities and indeed this is now in >>> progress. I am utterly unmotivated by the lack of cooperation, the sheer >>> arrogance and bullying of those that say "you will move to git/tonel or >>> else”, >> >> This is fun to ask Pharo not to grow up to use modern technology to manage >> source code under the >> premisses that Squeak cannot or will not. >> This is so funny how you state it. I will not comment more than that. >> People around are adults and they will be able to judge by themselves. >> >>> and considering leaving VMMaker altogether. >> >> If you leave VMMaker, let us know because we will port it to Github and make >> it work in Pharo. >> Esteban did it several times in the past. At least this will have the >> benefit to clarify the situation. >> >> I think that this is good that you tell us that you do not want to cooperate >> with us. >> This will have at least the impact to kick our ass and pay attention to us. >> >>> The only things that are keeping me interested are Ron Teitelbaum's Terf >>> and me pursuing a PhD on register allocation in the context of Sista/Scorch >>> with Robert Hirshfeld's group at HPI. >>> >>> Here's the kind of crap people like Ducasse throw at me: >>> >>> "Eliot >>> >>> At the end of the day I will probably ask the two phds that should work on >>> language design to use truffle or pypy >>> because let us face it we cannot work with the Pharo VM. Else we will >>> simply have to fork it (because we do not want to have >>> to jump over cuis, newspeak, squeak code constraints and I do not what) and >>> it will be another drama is in the pico world >>> of the “open” smalltalk VM. " >>> >>> I am so over this crap. >> >> This is not a crap. I can restate what I said. Because of responsibility of >> a research team and creating a future for students. You know I’m not alone, >> I have quite some responsibility towards PhD students >> of my group and yes I cannot make them fail by construction (or produce >> unadequate results) >> just by imposing them to use a system with far too many constraints. >> >> I will not ask them to work on the openSmalltalk vm directly because this is >> not their responsibilities >> to have to jump over newspeak ifdef and others. A job of a PhD is to be >> able to brainstorm and create new ideas. Look at Stefan Marr (He is working >> on SOM or Truffle). >> >> Now you can think that I’m an asshole, arrogant, or I do not know pick what >> you want. >> ***I do not care***. I do not have Diva syndrome I have responsibilities >> towards people. >> >> I was discussing with some truffle experts and they told me that this is can >> be complex. I believe it. >> I would like to avoid pypy for obvious reasons. So what we will probably do >> for their PhD is to see if we can use a light version of opensmalltalk. I do >> not want to ask them to jump over many things that are totally useless for >> them all the time. >> >> >> PS: personnally I do not get why VMMaker would be the only project on earth >> that cannot be managed using git and Pharo. >> But for us the future is Git and we will continue to build on this >> infrastructure. >> >> >> Stef >> >>> >>> _,,,^..^,,,_ >>> best, Eliot >> >> >> >> -- >> _,,,^..^,,,_ >> best, Eliot > > -------------------------------------------- > Stéphane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr > http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Julie Jonas > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France > > > > > -- > _,,,^..^,,,_ > best, Eliot -- www.feenk.com "The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."
