pay attention Spec2 is in pharo-spec/
and it is regularly updated in P8 alpha.
I have P8 dev and don’t see a ref to Spec in the package pane filter.
P8 alpha is not P8 dev?
Is the sequence: dev, alpha, beta, release?
We will start to work on the book
We should push Commander2 and start to use it systematically.
https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/BuildingApplicationWithSpec2
Okay.
Pavel is moving back to Prague but he can tell you what is doing to port code
from VW.
I think that the namespace are not the main problem.
I need class-naming freedom, mostly, for now.
We are working on Modules for Pharo now this is tricky and it can impact the
complete system.
Yes, it is very tricky and can cause chaos and destroy much utility if not
managed correctly.
Adding environment is only a tiny part of the problem.
I don’t have a formal definition for Environment. I tend to think in terms of
a VW namespace.
Shaping
No, I missed it. Thanks for that.
I have a lot of algorithmic meat in domain classes. Those are easy to port,
even if I must manually trip over the minor VW/Pharo differences, and fix them
as I come to them, or just run my own VW script to do mass edits on file-outs.
I don’t mind this part of the conversion much, and it would cover most of what
I have port.
I have some special GUIs (2D and 3D) that I need to recode anyway, probably in
Spec and Woden. The 3D stuff is now done in Jun OpenGL, which has seen its
day, and I suppose won’t be updated to use the OGL shader model. The last
update for VW, I think, is from 2015. I’ve had enough of Jun anyway, and would
prefer to use Woden in Pharo, or port it to VW, and work on in there. But the
GUIs in recent years are not the big issue. The domain objects are.
Mostly, I value reading efficiency. We spend most of our time reading programs
so that we can determine how to write some change or new feature without
breakage or incongruity. I value reading at high rates and with high
comprehension, small methods, and rigidly controlled naming conventions. The
ultimate aim is to have the machine reason about my code, with the same or
greater grammatical and semantic awareness. This happens now only at a
superficial level with classes, methods, and referential, slot-based integrity
checks. I’m happy they are there, but they are not nearly enough to make
humans extremely productive and powerful at shaping machine behaviors. I think
we are overworked and that our machines are hardly being used. There is a
science to increasing reading speed and comprehension in a programming context
(and getting the machine to help you in the domain layer), and you can’t use
that science very well with speed bumps at the beginnings of all the class
names. Therefore, I very much value naming classes exactly as I need. Even
this is an interim approach. If things go well, classes and methods will go
away in the future, but I digress from the near-term task.
I saw the bit near the end of the slides about Spec2. Does this really use GTK
to make native GUIs, and does this mean we can have real OS windows on Windows?
I miss Alt-Tab-ing for navigating through windows, and would like to see it in
the Pharo, but that can’t happen without OS windows. Any Windows Pharo users
miss Alt-tab-ing?
Can Spec2 be tested in Pharo8 now?
Please point me to the best resources on Spec2. It looks very interesting. I
found these:
<https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2019/04/18/pre-ann-spec-2-0-gtk3-bindings/>
https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2019/04/18/pre-ann-spec-2-0-gtk3-bindings/
“
And that’s it. Pharo 8.0 will come with Spec 2.0 and users will be able to
benefit of it immediately <image001.png>
Pharo 80 will not need Gtk3. We will provide packages for Gtk3 for the people
that need it. We will also release Spec20 soon so that people can try Spec 20 –
independently of Gtk3
“
<https://github.com/dionisiydk/Spec2> https://github.com/dionisiydk/Spec2
I don’t see Spec2 in Pharo 8. I suppose I need to load it.
No it is directly in.
Is the Spec book still relevant?
Not fully we will start to port the book.
Is Spec2 mostly about the back-end changes for use of GTK?
No it is a massive change.
- Introducing new layouts (deprecated the interpreter design)
- soon using Commander2 for menus and the rest
- many many cleans
- Introduction of application and more.
Shaping
> On 2 Jun 2019, at 12:12, Shaping < <mailto:[email protected]>
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm fairly sure Environments hasn't been ported to Pharo. Namespacing is
> still on open question on Pharo.
> The little I know about the topic is that its complicated since it can
> introduce as many problems as it solves.
> its something that is wanted, but priorities have taken precedence.
> A bit work being done in the background should support namespaces when there
> are resources to "get it right" ...
>
> <http://forum.world.st/Namespaces-was-Re-Behold-Pharo-The-Modern-Smalltalk-tp4983800p4990734.html>
>
> http://forum.world.st/Namespaces-was-Re-Behold-Pharo-The-Modern-Smalltalk-tp4983800p4990734.html
>
> For the moment, best best is a few tips on converting from namespaces.
> <http://forum.world.st/Migration-from-VW-to-Pharo-td5098328.html#a5098334>
> http://forum.world.st/Migration-from-VW-to-Pharo-td5098328.html#a5098334
>
> Thanks for the links.
>
> Not having a quick and easy way to create namespaces in Pharo to ease porting
> of VW code is my main impediment. If Pharo namespaces existed, I would just
> deal with all the other problems, and push on, instead of using them to
> justify returning to VW.
>
> I can learn to deal with Iceberg.
>
>
> Shaping
