> On 2 Jun 2019, at 18:14, Shaping <[email protected]> wrote: > > pay attention Spec2 is in pharo-spec/ > and it is regularly updated in P8 alpha. > > I have P8 dev and don’t see a ref to Spec in the package pane filter.
check composablePresenter (it is Spec20 > > P8 alpha is not P8 dev? No it is. > > Is the sequence: dev, alpha, beta, release? no alpha=dev > > > We will start to work on the book > We should push Commander2 and start to use it systematically. > > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/BuildingApplicationWithSpec2 > <https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/BuildingApplicationWithSpec2> > > Okay. > > Pavel is moving back to Prague but he can tell you what is doing to port code > from VW. > I think that the namespace are not the main problem. > > I need class-naming freedom, mostly, for now. > > We are working on Modules for Pharo now this is tricky and it can impact the > complete system. > > Yes, it is very tricky and can cause chaos and destroy much utility if not > managed correctly. Since Squeak3.9 I’m working on removing hardocded usage of Smalltalk instead of an environment or se;lf class environment. So that one day we can try module/namespace for real. Now when porting code from VW to Pharo 1.0 :) I just did a mapping namespace to prefix and change the class name in VW to have prefixName. This is basically what the exporters are doing from VW. > > Adding environment is only a tiny part of the problem. > > I don’t have a formal definition for Environment. I tend to think in terms > of a VW namespace. Same and I do not like VW namespace with public and private imports I may have pretty printed the code to have ref to class getting the same treatment. > > Shaping > > > >> No, I missed it. Thanks for that. >> >> I have a lot of algorithmic meat in domain classes. Those are easy to port, >> even if I must manually trip over the minor VW/Pharo differences, and fix >> them as I come to them, or just run my own VW script to do mass edits on >> file-outs. I don’t mind this part of the conversion much, and it would >> cover most of what I have port. >> >> I have some special GUIs (2D and 3D) that I need to recode anyway, probably >> in Spec and Woden. The 3D stuff is now done in Jun OpenGL, which has seen >> its day, and I suppose won’t be updated to use the OGL shader model. The >> last update for VW, I think, is from 2015. I’ve had enough of Jun anyway, >> and would prefer to use Woden in Pharo, or port it to VW, and work on in >> there. But the GUIs in recent years are not the big issue. The domain >> objects are. >> >> Mostly, I value reading efficiency. We spend most of our time reading >> programs so that we can determine how to write some change or new feature >> without breakage or incongruity. I value reading at high rates and with >> high comprehension, small methods, and rigidly controlled naming >> conventions. The ultimate aim is to have the machine reason about my code, >> with the same or greater grammatical and semantic awareness. This happens >> now only at a superficial level with classes, methods, and referential, >> slot-based integrity checks. I’m happy they are there, but they are not >> nearly enough to make humans extremely productive and powerful at shaping >> machine behaviors. I think we are overworked and that our machines are >> hardly being used. There is a science to increasing reading speed and >> comprehension in a programming context (and getting the machine to help you >> in the domain layer), and you can’t use that science very well with speed >> bumps at the beginnings of all the class names. Therefore, I very much >> value naming classes exactly as I need. Even this is an interim approach. >> If things go well, classes and methods will go away in the future, but I >> digress from the near-term task. >> >> I saw the bit near the end of the slides about Spec2. Does this really use >> GTK to make native GUIs, and does this mean we can have real OS windows on >> Windows? I miss Alt-Tab-ing for navigating through windows, and would like >> to see it in the Pharo, but that can’t happen without OS windows. Any >> Windows Pharo users miss Alt-tab-ing? >> >> Can Spec2 be tested in Pharo8 now? >> >> Please point me to the best resources on Spec2. It looks very interesting. >> I found these: >> >> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2019/04/18/pre-ann-spec-2-0-gtk3-bindings/ >> <https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2019/04/18/pre-ann-spec-2-0-gtk3-bindings/> >> >> “ >> And that’s it. Pharo 8.0 will come with Spec 2.0 and users will be able to >> benefit of it immediately <image001.png> >> Pharo 80 will not need Gtk3. We will provide packages for Gtk3 for the >> people that need it. We will also release Spec20 soon so that people can try >> Spec 20 – independently of Gtk3 >> “ >> >> https://github.com/dionisiydk/Spec2 <https://github.com/dionisiydk/Spec2> >> >> I don’t see Spec2 in Pharo 8. I suppose I need to load it. > > No it is directly in. > > >> Is the Spec book still relevant? > > Not fully we will start to port the book. > > >> Is Spec2 mostly about the back-end changes for use of GTK? > > No it is a massive change. > - Introducing new layouts (deprecated the interpreter design) > - soon using Commander2 for menus and the rest > - many many cleans > - Introduction of application and more. > >> >> Shaping >> >> > On 2 Jun 2019, at 12:12, Shaping <[email protected] >> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > I'm fairly sure Environments hasn't been ported to Pharo. Namespacing is >> > still on open question on Pharo. >> > The little I know about the topic is that its complicated since it can >> > introduce as many problems as it solves. >> > its something that is wanted, but priorities have taken precedence. >> > A bit work being done in the background should support namespaces when >> > there are resources to "get it right" ... >> > >> > http://forum.world.st/Namespaces-was-Re-Behold-Pharo-The-Modern-Smalltalk-tp4983800p4990734.html >> > >> > <http://forum.world.st/Namespaces-was-Re-Behold-Pharo-The-Modern-Smalltalk-tp4983800p4990734.html> >> > >> > For the moment, best best is a few tips on converting from namespaces. >> > http://forum.world.st/Migration-from-VW-to-Pharo-td5098328.html#a5098334 >> > <http://forum.world.st/Migration-from-VW-to-Pharo-td5098328.html#a5098334> >> > >> > Thanks for the links. >> > >> > Not having a quick and easy way to create namespaces in Pharo to ease >> > porting of VW code is my main impediment. If Pharo namespaces existed, I >> > would just deal with all the other problems, and push on, instead of using >> > them to justify returning to VW. >> > >> > I can learn to deal with Iceberg. >> > >> > >> > Shaping
