> > I have nearly 20 years of brain cells now if I do not die before so I > do not want to > spend my time on boring stuff when I can avoid it. > But you are throwing the baby out with the bath water. > No but we have the right to choose and consider if we like it or not. > > Actually I disagree.
You are mixing two completely different things here. 1. Squeak, an open source project with lots of stake holders that may cramp your style. 2. Any other completely open sub-project which you are invited to contribute to and further your aims by participating with (i.e. Monticello) When you forked pharo you understandably forked 1. There was no need to fork any external projects (2) Every sub-project (2) has its own developers, and its own culture, and attitude towards participation and change. When you treat other -sub projects and their communities with the same contempt that you understandably have towards the squeak community, you result in insulting those communities. The initiative I started on MC has a culture of participation and collaboration, together with an ethos of being as responsive as possible to feedback and suggestions. When you ignore this, you insult everyone that has put time and effort into that project. In a similar manner, any initiative or sub-project that you undertake within pharo, can have an ethos following either of two options. A). Pharo team specific developed for pharo speced for pharo only. B). A completely open sub-project which anyone is invited to support and to further your aims by participating with. When you pick option A, or fork option 2, you are actually insulting every project that was offered to you on the basis of option 2 above. Because you are saying, that you are happy to take from the other OSS efforts but you are not happy to give back, or contribute back to them on a similarly open basis. (and "you can port it if you want it" doesn't count) The clearest example of this continues to be Monticello. When I do months of work and suffer considerably for the good of "everyone that wants change" of which you were one person at the top of the list. I do the work out of the goodness of my heart because I expect in the ethos of open source software that there is some give and take. "Take" because I build on the work of others that freely contributed to me, and "give" because I contribute to the furtherment of the vision that they started, and "take" again because I anticipate others continuing the good fight in the long run on everyones behalf. Given a completely open independent project, that you are invited to support and contribute to, on which much work has already been done "on YOUR behalf", in the direction of "YOUR goals". I consider it to be extremely rude and insulting, for you not to join in and further your own aims by contributing positively back to that project. The reason that I have no interest in participating in pharo, is not that I dont agree with the vision. Its the fact that I find the attitude of the pharo team (with a couple of notable exceptions) to be extremely rude. Perhaps its a cultural thing. I consider the attitude conveyed by the words "No but we have the right to choose and consider if we like it or not." to be tantamount to snobbery, when the option and invitation is completely open for you to participate and make it as likeable as you wish. It is perfectly possible for the following projects to be initiated as loadable modular sub-projects, developed with an ethos of participation for anyone to contribute and for anyone to use. 1. Registration for menus and UI features 2. Improvements to Streams 3. HTTPSocket 4. Alternatives to Changesets 5. Replace the changes file mechanism with something else 6. Atomic loading (including traits) 7. Replacements for Morphic, MVP 8. Compiler 9. Network. 10. Compression. 11. Files 12. SSpec 13. SUnit 14. Code Browsers/Tools I am seriously considering licencing Rio under something other than MIT, so that you cant use it, until you change your attitude towards your potential benefactors. Keith _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
