2009/3/21 Keith Hodges <[email protected]>: > Janko Mivšek wrote: >> Guys, >> >> Let me say few words from my experience, because such fork actually >> happened to Swazoo, which maintainer I am. So, was I insulted? Well, I >> was surely not happy, but insulted? No! >> >> I took that as a competitive pressure to be even better with main Swazoo >> line. To prove therefore with deeds that our branch is the best. >> >> So please, don't mix competition with insulting. Use the competitive >> pressure (anger if you wish) to ride on it and be even better! Prove >> yourself with your work! >> >> Community is wise enough to be able to choose the best contender at the >> end. If you are chosen, celebrate, if you are not, analyze situation and >> be better next time, but don't give up, and specially don't feel insulted! >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> > Again its not about the technical choice, its about the philosophical > principle. Let me make this clear. > > "I spent a year of my time on tools and ideas that may benefit all, only > only only only only only only if all choose in principle to use those > ideas." (we sort out the technical details in the end). > > Check through my last email, and look at what it means to the community > if Pharo doesnt adopt MC1.5 and SUnit improved ideas (notice I said > ideas, its not just limited to code). > > 1. You/I will have to manage a separate project JUST for pharo. The > new(1 year old) PackageInfo-Base would allow you to export. > MyPackage.pharo from your main distribution. > > 2. You will have to manage a separate test suite JUST for Pharo. The > SUnit-improved is designed to allow tests to be marked and categorised > as to what should work where. This scheme should also apply to other > testing frameworks as they are integrated (SSpec). > > 3. You will have to manage a separate load script/universe for your > pharo code, and users will not have a place to tweak their load scripts > for pharo. Thus to support pharo you are forced to actually try loading > your code in pharo regularly. Remember pharo is a moving target, so you > will have to test it every month/week or so. IF your code ever fails to > load you will get a black mark of incompetence from the community, so > you had better keep on top of it. Meanwhile the squeak users can upload > their feedback of what is needed to make your package work in squeak > into the load scripts in Sake/Packages. Then on your next iteration you > can go and pick up the required changes, at your leisure. > > If you wonder why I keep banging on about this, I have over 40 packages > that I maintain both publically and as part of my work. I have gone to > an extreme amount of effort to try and minimise the pain, and the pharo > guys are ignoring the IDEAS and the code, and therefore making > unnecessary work for everyone. >
Keithy, what you proposing is change the development process pattern which people used to do for a years now, to a new, not yet clearly evaluated paradigms. I think you should be aware that forcing people to change their development style will meet a certain oppression. From your side, as an evangelist of a new approach, it very important to show how easy & painless the new process is going comparing to old one. Write tutorials , show simple 1.2.3. steps etc etc. Blaming the people that they keep using old development techniques is not the way to go. I think that Stephane clearly understands a different problems of software development , packaging, maintaining & distributing. What he maybe not clearly sees is a big win from using approach proposed by you. I hope you will find a meeting points to make interchange between Squeak & Pharo (and other forks) be painless, fun and productive. > Keith > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
