Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Keith, > > Interestingly, I could make only minor modifications, and write that same > paragraph with Squeak as the stone wall. The Squeak community ignored many > wonderful ideas Which is why we have finally got to a stage where the paradigm has shifted, even up to board level.
We started with LevelPlayingField, and that enabled progress in spite of the release team. Since that took off, Squeak hasnt been standing still or closed to new ideas. Nor have those that needed fixes to the image been left stranded, with "Installer mantis". What we have lacked is a new release in image form. > over a period of years of maintenance and incremental development; When I fully joined the squeak community, who was running the release team? Yes it was exactly the same guys as are the pharo team, namely Stef, and Marcus. > IMHO, look there to explain the numerous forks. Pharo has a stated objective > of breaking what needs to be broken to make progress, and it's not even at a > first release yet. > And so has LevelPlayingField, it enables you to break what needs to be broken, because you can put the compatibility back into LevelPlayingField if you need to. > You seem to think that the world will be a great place if all the Squeak > forks can share code. No, but I do think it will be a horrible place if we cant, and you have to think these things through and plan. "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail", I think it goes. For a start if projects like Pier and Seaside go Pharo only, then I am really up a creek. > What about VW, Dolphin, X, etc.? In the spirit of cooperation that you > demand from the alpha versions of Pharo, Squeak could have, years ago, done > something about its isolation of users of other dialects via its unique > handling of underscores. > Agreed. Underscores has been first on my list (waiting for when I get time to hack the kernel) for three years. > The Pharo team is not being rude; they are focused on a huge task for the > good of research, developers, users/customers, and Smalltalk. There is no > animosity toward Squeak; there is determination to eliminate > incompatibilities and cruft in general. > What is your definition of rude then? ( http://www.everything2.org/title/Americans%2520are%2520rude ) If I make a fix to a package that someone else is maintaining, I attempt to contact the maintainer and talk the change through with them. At the very least I attempt to check my fix into their repo so that they can benefit from it. Before making Sake/Packages, I discussed with the 3.10 release team, and the creator of Universes to see if we could adapt Universes to provide the needed functionality. Lex refused to relax the openness of universes or to compromise on the purely declarative approach, so Sake/Packages was born. Its called communication and recognising that some one else put their time and effort into solving the problem before on my behalf, and also the antithesis of "not invented here". Keith _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
