Sig, Very true. Pharo's portability and licensing will help with that. Having at least some domain-level (I would include the recently mentioned networking as a good example) compatibility with major dialects would help attract users.
I wish the IDE were faster. Bill -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Making GUI'S My 2 cents: one of the ways to stay 'compatible' is become a de-facto standart because of high popularity :) 2009/6/21 Stéphane Ducasse <[email protected]>: > > On Jun 21, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > >> On Sat, 2009-06-20 at 21:46 +0200, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: >>> + 100000000 :) >>> >>> I want to invent a reasonable future :) >>> >> Your (Marcus and yours) mails sound a bit strange to me. Please let >> us not do this separation between academia and industria again. I >> don't think there is any option but to try to have both: stability >> and improvements. There should be a core that is as common as possible. >> And >> no, having a common core is not _the_ reason for not be able to >> change anything. For me that were the reasons to fork off from squeak. > > Exact :) > >> This dialect thing in smalltalk is really ridiculous. You cannot use >> such basic things like networking even across two different dialects. >> So you have to stay inside your own world/box. That is IMHO highly >> in- >> appropriate for these times. But I know some reasons why it is like >> this and that's the reason I can live with it. But there is room for >> improvement we should not miss. > > totally true. > >> And I hope you can see that the support for basic technologies in >> smalltalk is way behind. > > unfortunately > >> The beauty and the >> strength of the language of smalltalk only lays within itself. >> >> Maybe I got you wrong but this mails triggered something in me so >> hence the more harsh tone :) > > No problem, we are discussing :) > Now we should not get trapped in the backward compatible compatibility > with X and Z. > > >> >> Norbert >> >> On Jun 20, 2009, at 5:22 PM, Marcus Denker wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On 20.06.2009, at 10:52, Cameron Sanders wrote: >>>> >>>>> They could probably all learn from the other flavors. In fact, the >>>>> cross-smalltalk portability is a negative for smalltalk. >>>>> >>>>> I believe I tried smalltalk/X... that's the natively-compiled one, >>>>> right? So it feels like C++ if you change a root class -- or am I >>>>> confusing it with another? I'm on a new platform and can't check >>>>> what all I installed last year, at the moment. >>>>> >>>>> I like the idea of a compiled version!! And there would be a place >>>>> for it in my world, *if* I could take code from Pharo and load it >>>>> into say, Smalltalk/X, and have it work without a month-long >>>>> debugging session. >>>> >>>> One huge problem with compatibility is always that it reduces any >>>> possibility in evolving/improving the system. If the goal is to be >>>> compatible to e.g. >>>> all of Smalltalk X, Visualworks, Squeak, Gemstone.... than, in the >>>> end, this means we can not do anything anymore, and, most >>>> importantly: we can not do any *fun* things anymore. >>>> >>>> Beeing compatible means reducing what you do to the subset of all >>>> the dialects, and than stop doing anything. >>>> >>>> If I you should choose between a) "inventing the future" and b) "be >>>> compatible to VisualWorks", what would you take? >>>> >>>> And I personally have already choosen for the "inventing the future" >>>> route, I guess. It makes >>>> no sense to be in Research (and beeing payed those wonderful tiny >>>> salaries) and than do boring stuff. >>>> That makes no sense. >>>> >>>> I personally think that the possibility and duty of working on >>>> interesting things is part of the overall compensation package of >>>> people in Research. >>>> >>>> Marcus >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Marcus Denker - http://marcusdenker.de PLEIAD Lab - Computer >>>> Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
