Hi randall
Squeak can copy pharo' goals. There is no problem. We have always been clear -
in fact since the Squeak world
tour.... back in 1998 - I was a big fan of John Sarkela, Paul and Joseph ideas.
We started Kernel Cleaning Project
in Squeak 3.5. You know removing all the Smalltalk at: everywhere. Cleaning
browser and SystemDictionary (full of crap).
We wanted a clean and lean "smalltalk" that people can learn from and invent
new worlds and make business.
I'm not sure that you know that but: We created (yes we goran, marcus, mike and
me) the SqueakFoundation just to make
sure that Squeak could move on. We wanted a Doitocracy. And we left the
foundation when it became clear that we were losing our time.
If you think about it we only forked once: some other people forked multiple
times and I'm sure that you can access
by yourself the state of their communities. We want to have fun and trust in
Pharo! I thank all the submissions and I try to learn
from them every day. We feel responsible for the system.
We burned our soul with 3.9 trying to maintain Squeak and we got bashed because
we wanted to change and clean.
Now the exact same people are doing what we are doing since May 2008.
Perfect! This is that we are right :) Thanks to recognize we were and are
right!
Now consider that Pharo is just at its enfancy. Let's see in 5 years what we
will have. We have the luxury to be able to
work on it during the next 10 years and we will. Sometimes I'm pestering that I
would like to go way faster but
we were the first one to
run a release (3.9) with MC,
I was one of the first to push SUnit - I wrote one chapter so that
people do not get afraid,
push refactorings - some famous squeaker ask me why I was pushing
refactoring and it was in 1998
SmallLint (check my old columns and french book).
So quality is not something trendy for us. We believe in it!
We are building a school of thought: look at Lukas, Adrian, Marcus.... code
quality and attitude.
We are working on a new pharo book with truly excellent contents - Stay tuned -
This is fun that I'm the author that wrote the
most Squeak books finally (not counting our new cool seaside one). So I will
have to beat my own record with pharo books. :)
Our goal is to make sure people can get a clean and lean infrastructure and to
have more advanced features than Smalltalk.
Now we will not have Etoy/Nebraska/tiles/Projects/. Note even reloadable not
because we do not like etoy
but the current implementation of etoys does not make it possible.
Stef
PS: I know that some people always like to shine and cannot miss any
opportunity to call us Etoy Haters, or Commercial Smalltalkers
We can be bashed about SmalltalkImage current too. Our vision is the one
described by eliot on minimal image and
remote access. We never changed our vision. We left to make it real after all
the investment we did: video, books, community.
Did you ever realize that we lost a lot but win more?
PSPS: Google is working on traits for JavaScript (probably in the next
standard), Perl have them too, Fortress is exclusively based on them,
Ruby people are looking at classboxes.... so this is nice to see that other
communitees recognize that we are generated good ideas.
>>>>>> "Adrian" == Adrian Lienhard <[email protected]> writes:
>
> Adrian> "Pharo provides a clean and innovative MIT-licensed Smalltalk
> Adrian> environment with a stable and small core system, excellent developer
> Adrian> tools, and maintained releases."
>
> Which, at this point, would not distinguish it from what Squeak core
> will be within another few weeks.
>
> Do you have any verbage that would allow newcomers to choose Squeak
> vs Pharo?
>
> Or are the goals and purpose finally merging again?
>
> --
> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
> <[email protected]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
> See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
>
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