2010/8/30 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.duca...@inria.fr>: > > On Aug 30, 2010, at 9:57 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > >> Hi Pharoers, >> I'm happy to read mail from Torsten, Igor and Miguel, thank you guys >> that's constructive. >> Andreas expressed his point very well, and i don't think it is >> hostile, maybe a bit sarcastic or disenchanted, but overall he keeps >> the door opened. >> The first thing to do is to cool down, relax and think. >> The second thing to do is engaging discussion with Andreas. >> >> Of course, the license is of prime importance, not having a license is >> a showstopper. >> If license is too restrictive then Andreas will probably fail to reach >> his goals... >> There will be de facto full rewrite rather than forks, but the net >> result will be the same: failure to share packages/libraries. > > why? > because if there is a rewrite it will be MIT. > >> That's why I personnally don't find Andreas defensive position a good >> strategy. >> Neither the attitude in response... >> It's like you're happy to throw his work away at first occasion >> without even trying to negociate. > > Oh no. I do not want that people bash us as people stealing work of other > people. > Read my mail on webClient. >
Sure, one thing is to remove WebClient and fulfill Andreas request. One other is to refuse to open discussion and engage a rewrite immediately. >> Bad vibrations. > > Writing all these mails is even more for me. > >> Before you engage in this (war)path, please, please, discuss. >> And remind this saying "il ne faut pas confondre vitesse et précipitation". >> If no agreement is found then, ok, you'll get a license to carry on. > > > So far we talk in the desert. > Loading WebClient is one line. So this is as easy as to remove. > You don't have to shout in the desert. Just mail Andreas, he claimed not being informed. > >> After the license problem, there is the technical compatibility problem. >> Discussions about cross fork compatibility, compatibility layers or >> libraries (a la GREASE) will have to occur anyway, be it about Andreas >> library or from any other author. So you'll have to take time to >> discuss. Don't consider this as lost time. These discussions are >> considered necessary when they regularly happens in Pharo mailing >> list, aren't they ? It shouldn't be that hard to convince Andreas to >> change things like and:and:and:. For squeakToUtf8, I don't know, maybe >> provide some automated rewrite rules, and produce an automated Pharo >> version ? > > I already suggested that. Now there is an important point. Infrastructure code > should be supported, accessible to the community. We got burned with graphics > andreas' onwership in the past. And yes we learned from that. > The past is the past. Maybe there were clumsyness from both sides... I can't know. One thing is sure, without communication, no possible agreement. >> >> Please, discuss, argue, explain why you consider certain constructions >> as bad style. Propose alternatives (be constructive - remember >> coopetition ?). >> I consider being unable to explain one's own choice as a weakness. >> Don't be weak. >> Come-on guys, despite Levente's cutting remark, you're not inferior to >> squeakers ;) (and you don't have to answer to that stupid conclusion). > > I will let people decide as I did for the inclusion of webClient and we will > rewrite one if > necessary and it will be MIT. This will be the same for the equivalent of > SqueakSSL > we will try as much as possible to offer an infrastructure that let people > control > their life and make money. > > Our goal is to have a core that could be bootstrap so to have many packages > as external as possible > now I thought that it would help people to have webClient and also help us to > remove this ugly network > package. > I should have know before the other HTTPClient library and we will not be > here losing our time. > > Stef > Certainly, you don't have to convince me :). You might have to convince Andreas (I don't see him in copy). Maybe let another Pharoer negotiate... cheers Nicolas > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
