On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <[email protected]>wrote:
> Stef, > > Some thoughts: > > (1) I thought Spock would be the unifier. Cool name as a bonus. > > (2) FFI can do callbacks, it's just not wrapped. Andreas described how > to do it, but it's not user friendly. > > (3) I suspect the reason for the two packages is pragmatism, but I can't > speak for those among us who are adept at the vm side of things. Think of > me as an applied mathematician and biomedical engineer. I write nice code, > but have my limits. > try laziness ;) its all work. I haven't found the time to combine them. > > (4) a unified approach would be most welcome. > > Bill > > > > ________________________________________ > From: [email protected] [ > [email protected]] on behalf of Stéphane > Ducasse [[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:13 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > > On Feb 2, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Stéphane Ducasse < > [email protected]> wrote: > > I'm confused. > > Why do you need alien in addition to FFI. > > > > Because I implemented callbacks in Newspeak's Alien system and then > added support to FFI to accept Alien's callbacks. Replicating the Alien > callback system in FFI can be done, but it'll be the same Alien scheme > under the covers. So why bother renaming all the image support when its > already there? > > yes but why not making alien part of FFI and not forcing people to load > two packages if this is part of the functionality? > It just add more confusion. > > > Stef > > > > > And loading the latest version is not a way to get reproducible > situation. > > > > Stef > > > > > we are using it with success... installed this way: > > > > > > Gofer it > > > squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; > > > package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; > > > load. > > > (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load. > > > > > > Gofer it > > > squeaksource: 'Alien'; > > > package: 'Alien'; > > > load. > > > > > > not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can > subclass ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, > and when you need a callback you use alien Callback. > > > > > > (works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4) > > > > > > best, > > > Esteban > > > > > > El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribió: > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K < > [email protected]> wrote: > > >> Eliot, > > >> > > >> Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for > examples? > > >> > > >> Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See > http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15 > > >> > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________________ > > >> From: [email protected] [ > [email protected]] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [ > [email protected]] > > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM > > >> To: [email protected] > > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > > >> > > >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K < > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > >> Göran, > > >> > > >> Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to > contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the > wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being > at the base of thread. > > >> > > >> Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust > everywhere. > > >> > > >> Best regards, > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> > > >> [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, > but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. > > >> > > >> Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous > callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate > image-level code but the VM has support and it works. > > >> > > >> > > >> [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________________ > > >> From: [email protected]<mailto: > [email protected]> [ > [email protected]<mailto: > [email protected]>] on behalf of Göran Krampe [ > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] > > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM > > >> To: [email protected]<mailto: > [email protected]> > > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > > >> > > >> Hi guys! > > >> > > >> On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > >> > On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > >> >> I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are > flying off the handle, not me. > > >> >> > > >> >> Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. > Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to > improve it. > > >> > > > >> > Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on > SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their > free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their > software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything > unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their > users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if > one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time. > > >> > > > >> > I might be wrong, but I fail to find > > >> > > > >> > - any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) > > >> > - any issues you solved > > >> > - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or > anywhere else > > >> > - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that > you wrote > > >> > > > >> > I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute > than what you are doing now. > > >> > > > >> > Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back > to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same > spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions. > > >> > > > >> > My 2c, > > >> > > >> This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm > > >> Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community > long > > >> before Pharo was even born. ;) > > >> > > >> Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was > based > > >> on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was > > >> trying to insult. > > >> > > >> General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you > > >> done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over > the > > >> years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't > > >> shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly > > >> community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :) > > >> > > >> regards, Göran > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> best, > > >> Eliot > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> best, > > >> Eliot > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > best, > > Eliot > > > > > > -- best, Eliot
