On 30 November 2012 18:23, ☈king <[email protected]> wrote: > On 11/30/2012 10:48 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: >> I am sure the Emacs user will be violently against it. > > Actually, that's the thing: Namespacing. > > You could install vi keys on emacs and an emacs user would never notice > without hitting the Escape key. > > Emacs keys, on the other hand, *do* conflict with existing Pharo bindings. > >> Another thing is that I personally think that one of the things that >> Smalltalk >> did very early is to not have modes for editing… >> >> Are editing modes really something people want in 2012? > > Think of modes as a monkey that sits by your keyboard. > > Every time you bop him on the head (that is, you hit Escape), he > obediently reaches over and holds down a special keyboard modifier for > you, and continues to do so until you tell him to stop. > > Since bopping him on the head takes no more time than hitting the > modifier key itself, hitting [Bop],[Key] is always going to be an > equally concise way of entering a string of commands compared to > chording [Modifier+Key]. But generally it's more concise, because you > tend to do big sequences of one or the other: edit a bunch, or input a > bunch. That is, in real life you do [Bop],[Key],[Key2],[Key],[Key3], > which is better than > [Modifier1+Key],[Modifier2+Key2],[Modifier1+Key],[Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Modifier+TurboDrive+Footpedal+☝+Key3] >
well, what you explaining here is not just about handling keyboard typing, but also requires changes in UI (showing command line, black & white color scheme, 80x25 text mode ;) ) etc.. i think, if vi would contest for "best obscure editor", i guess it would get 1st prize. i don't really care why you like it , just can you (or someone else) explain me, why you think it is best possible way of doing things? Since i can't see it. What exactly commands/shortcuts you wanna have there? And wouldn't it be better to focus UI design towards avoiding the need for shortcuts/modes alltogether? Also, i going to repeat same over again: we don't need a full-fledged text editor(s) in smalltalk IDE. In smalltalk you will find yourself rarely need to edit more than 10 lines of code at time. >From that perspective, do you think it is wise to invest people's energy into that? I think it should be a call for those who miss it: if you want it - make it. After all, you can run vi/emacs/<put your favorite> in separate window, and can always copy-paste text between, and enjoy your lovely keyboard shortcuts. Sorry, maybe i miss something and don't see full picture, but i really don't understand what is so cool in having vi/emacs shortcuts in pharo.. > > The critical point is that users that don't enter command mode would > never be bothered by it. Users who do stumble upon it could get an > additional leg up with the help text, and they don't even really have to > know it's "Vi Keys", just that it's a non-chorded interface. > > I know it's radical, but that's how we roll. (Right?) > > —☈ > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
