> On 24 Jan 2019, at 15:37, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Thank you! I'm one of those"
> "wow.. thank you :D"
>
> "Everybody is of course totally free to do whatever they want, but really,
> why the hell would you want to do that ?"
>
> I can think a few million reasons. Vim and Emacs for example with tons of
> internal and external tools , handling code, documentation, unit testing,
> integration with other languages. The list is very long.
>
> I think for me that I am not a shortcuts person which is usually the reason
> why people want to do this, I really like the idea of Workspaces/Projects in
> Visual Code. They are great for managing big project especially if you mix
> several languages together. Another good reason is dealing with markdown
> which is a popular way of documentation and quite convenient. Git support is
> extremely well done Visual Code for example tells me each line what commit is
> related to and direct acccess with good visualisation of remote git
> repositories.
>
> "A big part of what makes Pharo (or any Smalltalk) special is the IDE written
> in itself."
>
> There is no doubt that IDE wise Pharo is best to handle refactoring pharo
> code, debug etc. But my approach does not lock you down on a single editor.
> As I demonstrated in the video you can move easily between Pharo and VS code
> and thats the whole point, you can take advantage of the best of both worlds.
>
> "There is for example https://github.com/dmatveev/shampoo-emacs which already
> makes a bit more sense (but even then)."
>
> I am fully aware of emacs shampoo I used to recommend it but not any more for
> the simple fact it has not been updated for 6 years. Shampoo also is not just
> about code editing its also a port of the smalltalk IDE to emacs.
>
> I am talking strictly code editing here and various other tools that can be
> found in those editors that simply do not exist in Pharo, I am not talking
> about IDEs. Why not have your cake and eat it too if you can ?
>
> The whole point of my video was how to use external editor with Pharo and not
> to replace Pharo completely which I think what you talking about here. Coding
> editing in Pharo has still a long way to go, we do not even have an easy way
> to setup keyboard shortcuts which is essential not for me but at least for
> others.
>
> We all want to live completely inside the image but in reality those features
> take time to implement and is a lot of work for our small community.
>
> By the way neither Emacs, Vim or Visual Studio Code are IDEs.Just powerful
> editors with some IDE features and usually most of the features come in form
> of extensions that you have install and configure properly.
>
> In any case I will repeat once again the point of the video is how to taker
> advantage of nice features in code editors without having to abandon Pharo.
> If this convince people to stick with Pharo I think its a win win situation.
> Wouldnt you agree ?
These are all valid points (and I started by saying that everybody is free to
do whatever they want), but wouldn't you agree that the best experience is
- Java in IntelliJ's IDEA
- Objective-C / Swift in XCode
- The Mathematica language inside Mathematica
- Common Lisp in Emacs or LispWorks
- etc ..
Even though in each case you can edit code in any editor, you will miss out of
so much by doing so.
Many languages are 'strange' and have their own style of working - as a
newcomer you have to learn that and immerse yourself into that new world, in
order to really appreciate/get it.
'Textual Smalltalks' have been done before (GNU Smalltalk for example), [as
have many forms of Typed Smalltalk], IMHO they do not give you the real deal.
The allure of Pharo/Smalltalk should be 'learn something new that will blow
your mind and change forever how you think'.
Giving people a subpar entry into our world will probably not convince them
that there is something cool to be seen there.
Sven
