Hi Stef, I don't know what's the demand for such a feature.
In the Windows and Desktop era it might have been very important, but I don't see that kind of integration these days, when most system integrations happen at the HTTP level. For my particular case I don't need a DLL. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 1:55 PM Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.duca...@inria.fr> wrote: > > I would like also to be able to deploy a pharo app as a dll juts time and > money. > > S. > > On 7 Sep 2020, at 17:28, Esteban Maringolo <emaring...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Davide, > > Thanks for the thorough response, but I think you're over > dimensioning, and to some extent missing, my initial purpose and > intention. > > I don't want to protect from somebody attempting to reverse engineer > my application, that's impossible (more so given your references). > I simply want to disable the option to open the IDE, even with all > tool menus disabled. > > In Java if I deliver a .jar or .war anybody could reverse engineer it, > but launching it won't open the development environment. > > For comparison with other Smalltalks I've used: > * VisualWorks enables the distribution of a "headless" IMAGE (and > parcels) without sources, if you revert that image to be headful all > source code will be decompiled using meaningless variables. > * Dolphin has the concept of SessionManager that is the entry point to > the image startup, if you save your image with a Headless Session > manager, then no GUI loop will start, same thing if you deploy as a > COM component. > * VAST produces its own ICX file where you can choose what to include > in it, it's not simply saving the image but building a new one from > within the development image, it's one step further. > * VSE had the SLL (similar to DLLs), if you don't bind the IDE's SLLs > then there is no way to start the IDE (I never built a headless VSE > app though). > > So what I'd like is an always Pharo headless image or Pharo headless > vm, instead of being controlled by a parameter in the VM. > > Regards, > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 12:04 PM Davide Grandi <davide.gra...@email.it> wrote: > > > Ok, I'll give you a result, meanwhile fixing some imprecisions. > > The "class" is CogVmSimulator but it's use is very far from my knowlegde, > I recalled having seen a picture of Pharo-in-Pharo (or Squeak-in-Squeak) > running under this simulator. > It lives near the Cog side (or the OpenVM side) of Squeak/Pharo > (If I'm not wrong Squeak ran into an emulator, before walking on his > legs-his VM). > > There are many of these simulator, for other Smalltalk : > - Hobbes and others for Xerox (thanks to files of Mario Molczko and/or > Bitsavers > - Dan Ingalls Apda Smalltalk + old Smalltalk -72 /-76 > and maybe others I don't yet know about > > The reason is quite simple : the object memory is written to disk > and the spec of executing Smalltalk are known either from the books > or by the source. > > The root is Xerox's SystemTracer, a class that wrote a running image > to disk, optionally changing object format (see the Green Book). > > So : > - if you can read the image > - you can run into a simulator > - or decode it without to much effort (5 emulators for Xerox V2 image, > so far). > (try to open an image with a text editor : intriguing !) > > I don't know how Cincom or Instantiations protect the released st code, > but for Pharo and Squeak this is not a point : they are all open. > > So, as if you wanna "protect" names and methods of a running image ... > ... you have to (IMHO) : > - encrypt executable and image (and modify the VM) > - or obfuscate your classes and methods renaming it to > C1, C2, ..., m1:p1:p2: and so on (keeping a map for debugging) > > Sorry to be imprecise about names and locations > apart from suggest to see 4 emulators 4 running in a squeak image > running ... in javascript in your browser (so total is 5) at : > https://smalltalkzoo.thechm.org/HOPL-Squeak.html?earlyst80 > (thanks to Vanessa Freudemberg & Dan Ingalls). > > Sorry again & best regards, > > Davide Grandi > > On 06/09/2020 23:51, Esteban Maringolo wrote: > > If somebody gets to open the image and loads it with an Smalltalk > Emulator to execute it I'll ask him/her to start working together, and > even teach me how to do it. > > I don't want to shield the image from being accessed, just want to > make it harder than simply removing the '--headless' parameter to the > VM executable. > Of course removing sources is a plus (I do for a VW deployed image), > but even for this particular piece of software that I'm asking for, I > don't need it. > > If I wanted to make the source public, I'll publish it in > Github/Gitlab, otherwise I'd rather keep the code private. > > Regards, > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 6:29 PM Davide Grandi <davide.gra...@email.it> wrote: > > I mean that with SmalltalkEmulator, the Smalltalk interpreter > written in Smalltalk, one can execute an image looking at > classes, methods and maybe executing code at will. > > And the only practical form of protection I see in Squeak/Pharo > is to obfuscate code. > > Maybe I'm wrong. > > Davide Grandi > > On 06/09/2020 22:27, Esteban Maringolo wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 12:52 PM Davide Grandi <davide.gra...@email.it> wrote: > > Does "competition" has SmalltalkEmulator ? > A Smalltalk-written VM will defeat any simple obfuscation scheme. > > Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. > > Best regards, > > -- > Ing. Davide Grandi > email : davide.gra...@email.it > mobile : +39 339 7468 778 > linkedin : http://linkedin.com/in/davidegrandi > > > -- > Ing. Davide Grandi > email : davide.gra...@email.it > mobile : +39 339 7468 778 > linkedin : http://linkedin.com/in/davidegrandi > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > Stéphane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Aurore Dalle > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France >
