Loran I just wanted to thank your well put article and the service you provide for all of us "old cranks". I know that this is most often a thankless job, but believe me, it is an article I look forward to everyday. I've been a collector the last 44 years, but I have also been a pastor for the last 30 years. I enjoy this common ground that brings friendship with so many different kinds of people. Thanks again and please keep up the good work Randy Larson
> Send Phono-L mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://oldcrank.org/mailman/listinfo/phono-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Phono-L digest..." > > > If you reply, please change your subject line and don't include this entire > digest in your message. > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Marconi Velvet Tone discs(Fonotipia) (bruce78rpm) > 2. RE: Marconi Velvet Tone discs (Steven Medved) > 3. Re: Marconi Velvet Tone discs(Fonotipia) (Robert Wright) > 4. Re: Marconi Velvet Tone discs (Robert Wright) > 5. Re: Marconi Velvet Tone discs (Daniel Melvin) > 6. Re: Marconi Velvet Tone discs (Tyrone Settlemier) > 7. Re: An Introduction and Random Thoughts (Andrew Baron) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 19:28:34 -0400 > From: "bruce78rpm" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Marconi Velvet Tone discs(Fonotipia) > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <013801c7be93$0b298990$6401a...@custom> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > A few years ago I acquired a 12" Fonotipia Record: 74000(A4737) La Boheme > Che Gelia manina by Alessandro Bonci recorded in Milan, backed by 74006 > (A3316) Faust Salve dimora also recorded in Milan by Bonci. The strange > thing about the label is that in the two spaces that would ordinarily refer > to Tenor Solo (to the left of the spindle hole) and In Italian(to the right > of the Spindle Hole) are clearly printed the words "MARCONI" and VELVET TONE > on both sides of the record. There was an unsuccessful attempt to rub these > words out, but they are still clearly visible. I would assume now since I > read your comments about some fonotipia masters used for Velvetone > recordings that when the Velvetone records failed, these > Phonotypic-MARCONI-VELVET TONE labels were used instead on regular shellac > Phonotypic 12" records. If anyone would like to see the scan of one these > sides I would be happy to supply it for your research. > > Best Regards, > > Bruce > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steven Medved" <[email protected]> > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 12:15 PM > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Marconi Velvet Tone discs > > > in?> > (By the way, there are apparently a scarce few Fonotipia masters on > Marconi > out there. Fonotipias are near the top of my list for sonic > pleasure from > acoustic recordings; I bet those on Marconi must've sounded > unbelievable > when still fresh.)> > > Thanks in advance for any further > information,> Robert > > _______________________________________________> > Phono-L mailing list> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org_______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 20:25:22 -0400 > From: Steven Medved <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Marconi Velvet Tone discs > To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Rick,I never thought of playing them on a modern turntable, but I did this > with Diamond Discs and they sounded much better than I thought. My problem > is my turntable only does 33 and 45.Thanks for the wonderful idea.Steve> > From: [email protected]> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 14:13:32 -0400> Subject: Re: > [Phono-L] Marconi Velvet Tone discs> To: [email protected]> > In a message > dated 7/4/2007 10:23:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > [email protected] > writes:> > > Do you play yours? I thought they were too fragile to play. > How do you > > keep them from slipping? I am now curious how these sound.> > > > Hi All, > Well, I'm not Robert but I play my Marconi Records. I merely play > them on a > modern lightweight tone arm electric 78 rpm phonograph. The sound > can be simple > awsome! I have also played a few Columbias from the same era > that seem to > blow away the Victors with depth and roundness on tone. > > However, something changed in Columbia's recording equipment and by the time > > the Blue Label records came out the sound quality in the lower range seems > to > have greatly diminished.> My only assumption is that the strong notes > in the lower register were > causing damage to the reproducers used in the > Columbia. The mica would finally > start to disintigrate from the extra > strong vibration and caused that squealing > sound at certain tones and if > the reproducer was too stiff the damage to the > grooves would soon become > apparant.> Just my personal observations.> Sincerely.> Rick A. Jorgensen> > > AMERICAN GRAMOPHONE & WIRELESS Co.> > http://members.aol.com/AGW1886/index.html> GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION> > http://members.aol.com/AGW1888/geaahome.htm> > > > > **************************************> See what's free at > http://www.aol.com.> _______________________________________________> Phono-L > mailing list> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 19:30:33 -0500 > From: "Robert Wright" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Marconi Velvet Tone discs(Fonotipia) > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Ohhhh Bruce would I love to see that. Your assumptions make perfect sense! > That might be as close as most of us will get to seeing an actual Marconi > Fonotipia. Thanks in advance! > > Best, > Robert > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bruce78rpm" <[email protected]> > > >A few years ago I acquired a 12" Fonotipia Record: 74000(A4737) La Boheme > >Che Gelia manina by Alessandro Bonci recorded in Milan, backed by 74006 > >(A3316) Faust Salve dimora also recorded in Milan by Bonci. The strange > >thing about the label is that in the two spaces that would ordinarily refer > >to Tenor Solo (to the left of the spindle hole) and In Italian(to the right > >of the Spindle Hole) are clearly printed the words "MARCONI" and VELVET > >TONE on both sides of the record. There was an unsuccessful attempt to rub > >these words out, but they are still clearly visible. I would assume now > >since I read your comments about some fonotipia masters used for Velvetone > >recordings that when the Velvetone records failed, these > >Phonotypic-MARCONI-VELVET TONE labels were used instead on regular shellac > >Phonotypic 12" records. If anyone would like to see the scan of one these > >sides I would be happy to supply it for your research. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Bruce > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 19:39:33 -0500 > From: "Robert Wright" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Marconi Velvet Tone discs > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I also play my Marconi's on a modern turntable... I'd never play any record > I consider valuable for any reason on a wind-up phonograph. If normal play > on a wnd-up caused any wear whatsoever to records (a constant concern > according to every early record advertisement that included claims of > "out-wearing any other record" and a physical certainty), then I refuse to > cause any wear whatsoever to valuable records where avoidable. Lightweight > pickups (I'm talking 3 grams max) with diamond stylii cause what I consider > negligible damage if any, and I still try not to play the valued discs too > often. I can't imagine how quickly the Marconi's must've shredded back in > the days, even with the gold needles! > > I definitely agree with Rick's assertions about the changing sonics of the > Columbia's, something I'll bet many of us have noticed. My initial point > regarding the sonics of the Marconi's (when played on a modern turntable and > compared to standard 1907 Columbia pressings also played on a modern > turntable) was that in spite of the Marconi's not working all that well on > the machines of the period and ultimately failing as a commercial venture, > the discs themselves weren't the problem as much as their incompatibility > with the phonographs. I'd consider the Marconi's "audiophile pressings" of > the standard Columbia issues, something Columbia carried on through the 80's > with their "Half-Speed Mastered" LP series (which don't need gold needles > and don't slip on the turntable). :-) > > Best, > Robert > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 1:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Marconi Velvet Tone discs > > > Hi All, > > Well, I'm not Robert but I play my Marconi Records. I merely play them on > > a > > modern lightweight tone arm electric 78 rpm phonograph. The sound can be > > simple > > awsome! I have also played a few Columbias from the same era that seem to > > blow away the Victors with depth and roundness on tone. > > However, something changed in Columbia's recording equipment and by the > > time > > the Blue Label records came out the sound quality in the lower range seems > > to > > have greatly diminished. > > My only assumption is that the strong notes in the lower register were > > causing damage to the reproducers used in the Columbia. The mica would > > finally > > start to disintigrate from the extra strong vibration and caused that > > squealing > > sound at certain tones and if the reproducer was too stiff the damage to > > the > > grooves would soon become apparant. > > Just my personal observations. > > Sincerely. > > Rick A. Jorgensen > > > > AMERICAN GRAMOPHONE & WIRELESS Co. > > http://members.aol.com/AGW1886/index.html > > GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION > > http://members.aol.com/AGW1888/geaahome.htm > > > > > > > > ************************************** > > See what's free at http://www.aol.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 19:48:47 -0700 > From: "Daniel Melvin" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Marconi Velvet Tone discs > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <007b01c7beaf$02e67380$6501a...@danslaptop> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > I just played the only Marconi velvet tone record I have. It's not in the > best of shape. It is number 064 which is a cornet solo of Oh Promise Me. I > wasn't all that impressed with the sound. Perhaps mine is just not in good > enough shape or something. So, I got out a couple other records recorded > about the same time. A Columbia and a Victor. Of the 3 the Victor record was > the quietest and to me the best to listen to. The normal Columbia early > records are really noisy and it always distracts from the sound on the > record. I will admit that the Marconi is much quieter and sounds better than > the normal Columbia. But, I would need to hear some other Marconi's to be > convinced they are all that much better than other records of the time. > > Dan > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 23:21:17 -0500 > From: "Tyrone Settlemier" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Marconi Velvet Tone discs > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <00e201c7bebb$efb692b0$21011...@discography> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > To a certain extent, I think you're the victim of dumb luck. Yes, their > first issues were "standards" intended to be in the catalog for a longer > period of time than the "hit of the moment" type discs. If you look at the > low numbers in Columbia's first disc series, and in their A-prefix > double-sided discs, you'll notice the same pattern. The patent dates are > probably your best proof that Nauck and Sutton are correct. I have 5 10" > Marconi discs, numbered between 22 and 380. They all have the "hairpiece" > version. I also have a 12" Marconi, numbered identical to the Columbia > issue (the 10" had a separate numbering sequence). It also has a hairpiece. > > Since the matrix numbers match the catalog numbers, I'm not sure if Columbia > recorded material specifically for the Marconi line, or if they obliterated > the original Columbia matrix numbers. > > Tyrone > > > > Nauck/Sutton's book, American Record Labels and Companies, says the > > records started with No. 01 and reached into the low 400's, and that most > > issues were pressed from ordinary Columbia masters. Would they have > > issued the biggest Columbia sellers first, or was it common to issue > > records non-chronologically? I'm just trying to figure out why my > > (lowest) No. 06 is on the later label while my (highest) No. 169 is on the > > earlier label, and why my No. 32 is on the later label while the one in > > the book is on the earlier label. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 09:25:09 -0600 > From: Andrew Baron <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] An Introduction and Random Thoughts > To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Thanks, Loran for this background and commentary / gentle reminder. > It was very nice to get a little acquainted with you. > > A very brief bit about me: I'm 45. I've been fascinated with > phonographs since I can't remember when, but probably since at least > age 7. Bought my first one (a ca. late 20s? Berg-Artone portable) > with lawn mowing earnings and a Morgan silver dollar when I was 12. > About that time I also got my first vacuum tube radio (after building > Radio Shack kits since age 10). Got my first Edison, a BC-34, from a > flea market vendor when I was 14, and a few weeks later bought my > first "rare" record (not so rare as it turns out, since the advent of > eBay); a nice copy of "Let Us Not Forget" on DD with about 85% of the > original sleeve, from the same vendor. I sold a chunk of my humble > coin collection for $50 to buy it, and it was a real prize then, > which I still treasure these 31 years later. > > Today I divide my time, and some income, between repairing vintage > radios, phonographs, clocks, jukeboxes, theremins, etc., for myself > and others, and also working as a "paper engineer", which means that > I collaborate with illustrators and graphic designers to create pop- > up books, cards, magazine inserts and so on. I can provide a link to > an illustrator's web page that has video clips of some of my more > complex pull-the-tab engineering. A back-burner pet project in my > studio is a "History of Recorded Sound" pop-up book, with dimensional > and movable interactive examples of the significant historical > developments and machines, with perhaps a few sound chips, etc. > > I also can do fine pencil illustrations of machines. I think that > one or two of the folks on this list might have a print of my Edison > Home phonograph drawing. The original drawing took 37 hours and > hangs in my music room. The ENHS has one hanging in their phonograph > demonstration room, and have sold them in their gift shop. > > A recent highlight of my electro-mechanical endeavors was that the > Franklin Institute in Philadelphia brought me out there to restore > their 200 year old writer/draughtsman automaton and their 1929 RCA > theremin, both of which required extensive work. You can see the > automaton and a couple of samples of what it does by doing a Google > search using the words: Franklin Automaton. The first site that > comes up, and ends in edu takes you to the right page. I can also > email a tiny video clip of it drawing a picture to anyone who wants > to see it. Just let me know where to email it. > > I live in Santa Fe, NM. > Andy Baron > > > On Jul 4, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Loran T. Hughes wrote: > > > Dear friends, > > > > For those of you new to the list or don't know, let me introduce > > myself. My name is Loran Hughes and I'm the owner of Phono-L. > > Owner? Yes, I own and maintain the server. Except for a few > > donations from generous members, I bear all the costs of running > > this list - the hardware, software, domain name, electricity, > > internet connection, and glasses (so my old eyes can see the screen). > > > > I was born and raised in southwest Oregon. We lived on a dirt road, > > got our milk from our cow, and raised pigs, chickens, rabbits, and > > cattle. We kids took care of them, named them, and when the time > > came, we ate them. > > > > My dad had a TV repair shop in a little town that would have passed > > for Mayberry. He was also a musician, a drummer who would load up > > the drum set in his station wagon and play sets at some of the > > local watering holes. One of the musicians he worked with turned > > out to be my future father-in-law. > > > > I studied mechanical engineering in college - my passion was > > drafting. I also had a thing for this girl that I had known since > > the 5th grade. Drafting degree in hand, I married the girl of my > > dreams and joined the Air Force??? It turned out to be a good > > choice for us, and I settled in as a "lifer." Our little family got > > to live in Monterey, San Antonio, Seoul (and other South Korean > > towns), and the Baltimore/DC area. I learned a foreign language and > > had a clearance slightly less than God himself. A near fatal bout > > with cancer while in the service gave me perspective on life and > > family. I discovered the wonderful world of phonographs. > > > > When I retired, the government gave me the cool classification of > > "disabled veteran," which entitled me to a neat license plate and > > free entrance to national parks. OK, I also get a little tax free > > green from Uncle Sam. It ain't much, but it helps. > > > > Since the service, I had a gig as a technical writer. I really > > loved that job, but sadly learned the hard lessons of corporate > > takeovers and ended up with a pink slip and a pat on the back for > > my troubles. I freelanced for a bit, then ended up with a position > > as a systems administrator. > > > > So that's where I came from. Here are a few things I learned along > > that journey. > > > > 1. If you form your opinions from newspaper stories, it's nice to > > know that the article is written to fit in the empty space between > > advertisements. These days, articles seem to lean more on opinion > > and less an accounting of facts. When I was in the business of > > knowing the situation on the ground (so to speak), news accounts > > usually got more wrong than right. > > 2. Newspaper reporters can sometimes spell words correctly, but are > > mostly dumb as rocks (my opinion). > > 3. Ditto for TV news. > > 4. I have very liberal and very conservative friends. We focus on > > what we have in common. If you can't see past the politics, you > > need to reevaluate your life (in my opinion). > > > > Now if you've made it this far, I'll tell you what this has to do > > with phonographs. It's the history of recorded sound and the > > objects that we preserve that is the glue that binds this group. My > > life and background is different, as is everyone's on this list. I > > enjoy hearing about folks who collect other things, such as the > > recent discussion of classic/vintage autos. I enjoy hearing about > > new finds and interesting research projects. > > > > Now a cold, hard fact. There is a limit to freedom of speech here. > > If you feel the need to discuss religion, politics, or air dirty > > laundry, take it off list. I stopped playing the part of a > > crotchety old sergeant long ago. Trust me, you don't want him to > > come back. > > > > Your benevolent dictator, > > Loran > > > > P.S., thanks for reading this rant. Have a safe and happy 4th! > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > End of Phono-L Digest, Vol 4, Issue 160 > ***************************************
