It turns out the the DD does experience wear or damage, pick the one you like. And when does wear become damage?
A properly setup and maintained linear tracking arm with a modern low mass high compliance cartridge will cause minimum damage to the grove walls. If you cling tenaciously to the pivoted tone arm with its changeable geometry and steel needle that needle will wear the grove as it rotates in the grove. You will be shaving rock dust off of the side walls as well as continuously reshaping the needle. Looks like damage to me. Ron L wrote: <SNIP> > I think Greg Boganz mentioned the lack of wear on DDs on the Electrola list > recently. It is not entirely because of the tone arm and has to do with > vertical grooves and the nature of the DD surface. > > Ron L From [email protected] Thu Mar 6 07:54:58 2008 From: [email protected] (Rich) Date: Thu Mar 6 07:55:36 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Shellac records and damage from steel needles In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> You can buy a cartridge for your turntable that has 5 to 7 mil conical diamonds. You might find that the standard stereo stylus might miss the existing wear and produce a clean reproduction of badly damaged originals. These will fit into any of the modern turntables and play mono records. The Thorens TD 126 Mk III is not a bad choice if you do not have one. It will cover the 78 rpm to 80 rpm speeds without a lot of work. You will be surprised how good some of these old recordings sound. I think Kurt Kauck has information on the details of setting this up on his website, complete with pictures. Thatcher Graham wrote: > Rich, > > In my general naivety toward this new hobby I'd assumed everybody knew > that the steel needle damages the groove. I wasn't aware there was even > a debate. A modern tone arm tracks in grams, the phonograph in ounces! > But I do have a question. Most of my collection I've assumed to be > relatively valueless. Is there a simple resource I can use so I don't > happen to destroy one that /is /actually valuable? > > -Thatcher > > > Rich wrote: >> Robert, >> I have used highly modified RABCO arms to play records on modern >> Thorens belt drive turn tables since the early 70s. >> >> What you are very clearly explaining here is correct but I quit trying >> to convince the true believers of the permanent damage they were >> inflicting on irreplaceable records. >> >> You are also correct in stating that the damage created by a properly >> setup DD machine is minimal when compared to all of the rest of the >> period machines. >> >> Your treatise on phonograph geometry and record damage should stir up >> some activity. I am picturing a young boy with a stick stuck far into >> a hornet nest stirring briskly while his brother looks on from a safe >> distance. >> >> Rich >> >> Robert Wright wrote: >>> Many times the pros and cons of playing shellac discs on wind-up >>> phonographs have been discussed here on this list. >> >> <BIG SNIP> >>> >>> I have never agreed with this. I'm a child of the 80's, and I >>> remember when CD's came out - >> >> <BIG SNIP> >>> >>> But then, we all know that no matter how die-hard a collector's >>> conviction is that no groove damage occurs from wind-up playback, >>> it's not often we see any of them playing Caruso Zonophones and the >>> like on their Vic VI's. >>> >>> Thoughts? Comments? Corrections? It has been quiet in here for a >>> while, indeed! >>> >>> >>> Best to All, >>> Robert >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From [email protected] Thu Mar 6 08:03:03 2008 From: [email protected] (Ron L) Date: Thu Mar 6 08:07:35 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Shellac records and damage from steel needles In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]><[email protected]> <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Wear was a known entity. It was expected. My mom wore out a record of 'String of Pearls" because she played it every day when she got home from high school as a young teen. She wore it out, not damaged it out. Damage is a scratch, a crack, a chip or a needle dig. Every time you start and run your car you are wearing components. Are you damaging the car? No. If you hit a tree, then you are damaging the car. It has nothing to do with wear of components. If you don't change the oil in the engine, wear will be accelerated. I don't think it is right to call planned for/expected change-with-use "damage". Ron L -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:45 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shellac records and damage from steel needles It turns out the the DD does experience wear or damage, pick the one you like. And when does wear become damage? A properly setup and maintained linear tracking arm with a modern low mass high compliance cartridge will cause minimum damage to the grove walls. If you cling tenaciously to the pivoted tone arm with its changeable geometry and steel needle that needle will wear the grove as it rotates in the grove. You will be shaving rock dust off of the side walls as well as continuously reshaping the needle. Looks like damage to me. Ron L wrote: <SNIP> > I think Greg Boganz mentioned the lack of wear on DDs on the Electrola list > recently. It is not entirely because of the tone arm and has to do with > vertical grooves and the nature of the DD surface. > > Ron L _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
